Thread: Not All BBW Equal

Originally Posted by Oldengaerde

edit: notwithstanding the above, I still think that there are other natural hones that do what BBW does better and faster, and that for razor honers, there is no compelling practical reason to buy one.

I happen to agree - minus the "natural" part. I "upgraded" to the Naniwa 5k and 8k to replace my BBW/Coti because I find the synthetics to be faster and much more consistent. Price wise, I think the Nani 5k and 8k run about $100 for the both, and I don't know what a new coti or coti/bbw would be, but I would be surprised if you could get an 8 x 3 (or however big the Naniwas are) BBW and coti (even as thin as the Naniwas are) for the same price.

Granted, it is personal preference.

Based on my (current) preferences, I see no argument for any naturals, aside from finishers. Even then, synthetics and pastes can do very well too. (I use my Asagi and vintage Thurry because I happen to have them - gift and ebay luck, in that order.)

It is interesting that the bbw was thought to be just another rock back in the old days. When I got a natural coticule/bbw from a barber in Newark many years ago he made a point of telling me that the yellow side was the side to use for hoining and that the dark side was only to reinforce the yellow.

I have vintage coticules with blue glued to yellow. They used the blue as the reinforcement before they changed to slate. They used the bbw for cobblestones, fences and the like. Strange that they did not recognize the value of the blue rock for much of it's history but ...... that was the way it was. I have a natural coticule/bbw with a label glued on it completely covering the bbw that says "Old Rock" and some other hyperbole.

So way back when... they used bbw and then later went to slate. I'm not sure when they made the change. I have a number of naturals and all of the bbws are so close that I couldn't rate one as being better than the other. YMMV.

Here are photos of a couple of Old Rock hones. One still has the label glued to the bbw. I soaked the label off of the other because I use it. Point being that they sold these "Old Rock" hones with a label glued over the blue because they considered it to be unusable as a hone. Here also is a vintage "Salamander" with the bbw glued to the yellow. I have a few other bbw glued to yellow but I'm too lazy to take the photos.

I like the speckling on that coti Jimmy.

What a timely post-- I just used the BBW side of my natural combo for the first time yesterday, and was going to comment what a nice edge I got from it. When I lapped that side of the stone I noticed some interesting patterns (almost like you'd see on the coticule side, only darker)-- compared to my solo BBW which is pretty homogeneous.

-Chief

Yes, I have seen yellow/bbw combo with yellow bits here and there in the blue. Also veins of yellow in the side of the blue. Pretty cool looking.

I bought a BBW from Rob at Ardennes Coticule quite some time ago after w had had a discussion about the variations in BBWs. He personally selected for me a very fast cutting one with yellow spots. He said that the presence of the spots placed it somewhere between the usual BBW and the coticule - I estimate it at 5000+ grit. I have had a number of natural BBW/coticule combinations, and during lapping (some needed an inordinate amount of lapping - very, very dished) the yellow spots occur close to the join where one layer has been deposited on the next, so my theory is that the faster cutting BBWs come from very near the overlying (or underlying) coticule layer, and that the more usual blue that is used to make the glued combos is further back in the blue layer with little or no coticule inclusion. Just my opinion though.

Regards,
Neil

Originally Posted by BHChieftain

What a timely post-- I just used the BBW side of my natural combo for the first time yesterday, and was going to comment what a nice edge I got from it. When I lapped that side of the stone I noticed some interesting patterns (almost like you'd see on the coticule side, only darker)-- compared to my solo BBW which is pretty homogeneous.



-Chief

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

I bought a BBW from Rob at Ardennes Coticule quite some time ago after w had had a discussion about the variations in BBWs. He personally selected for me a very fast cutting one with yellow spots. He said that the presence of the spots placed it somewhere between the usual BBW and the coticule - I estimate it at 5000+ grit. I have had a number of natural BBW/coticule combinations, and during lapping (some needed an inordinate amount of lapping - very, very dished) the yellow spots occur close to the join where one layer has been deposited on the next, so my theory is that the faster cutting BBWs come from very near the overlying (or underlying) coticule layer, and that the more usual blue that is used to make the glued combos is further back in the blue layer with little or no coticule inclusion. Just my opinion though.

Regards,
Neil

So did both of you guys find the back BBW side was better than your pure blue? The difference on mine is night and day. I like the one in particular better than the bout coti I have. I do believe that these are worthy hones in thier own right if someone would take the time to pick them out. The color is different too. Wonder if that has anything to do with garnet concentration since that is what gives them thier abrasion power.

I would think when they grade these things after they are mined and cut they do it by size and appearance. I would be surprised if they tested them for results and in most cases I doubt you could tell just eyeballing them. So your left with the retailer do the actual testing to give you what you want in the stone.

I agree that the Blue isn't a stone much used. Its slow and there are many better choices out there. The Coticule though I think is a great finisher and it's my go to stone and I get great results on it.

Originally Posted by Kingfish

So did both of you guys find the back BBW side was better than your pure blue? The difference on mine is night and day. I like the one in particular better than the bout coti I have. I do believe that these are worthy hones in thier own right if someone would take the time to pick them out. The color is different too. Wonder if that has anything to do with garnet concentration since that is what gives them thier abrasion power.

You know, I can't really say. I just sold my solo coti and solo BBW, so unfortunately I can't run any experiments on 'em... so I could be that since I like the natural combo better it feels like it hones better...(where's that double blind study when you need it!)

I was doing the coticule-only-slow-dillution method for a long time, and just the other day tried BBW+slurry followed by coticule + water approach. I got a really nice edge and will proably keep doing it that way for awhile. The other factor in my situation is the natural combo I have has only 5mm of yellow on it on one side, so I'd rather slurry up the thick BBW portion and save the coticule side as a finisher only.

-Chief

Originally Posted by BHChieftain

You know, I can't really say. I just sold my solo coti and solo BBW, so unfortunately I can't run any experiments on 'em... so I could be that since I like the natural combo better it feels like it hones better...(where's that double blind study when you need it!)

I was doing the coticule-only-slow-dillution method for a long time, and just the other day tried BBW+slurry followed by coticule + water approach. I got a really nice edge and will proably keep doing it that way for awhile. The other factor in my situation is the natural combo I have has only 5mm of yellow on it on one side, so I'd rather slurry up the thick BBW portion and save the coticule side as a finisher only.

-Chief

Believe me if you had a good one you would know and would not need a study. The plain piece of BBW that I have is pretty to look at, and huge hunk of stone, but it would do just as well as a building material compared to what is on the back of my naturals. I really don't like he honing feel of it either and to me that is just as importatant as other factors looking at it as a tool.9 And it will do a good job eventually but slowly.)
It s good that you will get use out of your BBW side in any event, I am sure it is a classy stone from what I am hearing you say..... Maybe we are very lucky to have ones with two functional sides.
Mike