Thread: Not All BBW Equal

Has anyone else noticed the difference between BBW when it is associated with natural combos compared to the ones that are mined not continuous with the yellow? I now have two natural combos, one that I picked up from a member here. It seems like the BBW on these hones is much faster and almost feeling like the yellow in some respects compared to the huge hunk of BBW that I purchased seperately not formed next to the yellow.

There can be a lot of difference between one BBW and another, but I don't think the BBW on natural combinations is better than the separately mined ones, nor, as some seem to think, that vintage BBW is better than recently mined BBW. There are some natural combination BBWs that work great, but I've seen many which performed sub-par too, or which had inclusions that rendered them practically useless. The same goes for vintage BBW. You have to keep in mind that BBW was not mined as a hone; it was just used as backing. It was never selected for its honing properties.

Thank You for the info. With a total of four hones from this family, I would not consider myself an authority Still it struck me funny in that both of the combos I have the BBW is much faster cutter than my plain BBW, so you can at least understand my curiousity. Luckily neither of them have inclusions although neither would fit into the category of the finest even colored stones as well. The fact that as you have stated that the BBW was never mined for it's honing properties historically makes them fasinating to me based on my humble and limited exposiour to them.
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Originally Posted by Oldengaerde

There can be a lot of difference between one BBW and another, but I don't think the BBW on natural combinations is better than the separately mined ones, nor, as some seem to think, that vintage BBW is better than recently mined BBW. There are some natural combination BBWs that work great, but I've seen many which performed sub-par too, or which had inclusions that rendered them practically useless. The same goes for vintage BBW. You have to keep in mind that BBW was not mined as a hone; it was just used as backing. It was never selected for its honing properties.

Are we talking about the blue belgian here? The backing used for the coticules is not the blue belgian material its slate. Blue Belgians certainly are well known hones and are mined as such just they are coarser than the coticules.

The difference between the plain Blues and the combo's is the proximity of the blue to the yellow in situ but that doesn't necessarity mean it's better quality. There are many reasons why any natural material can vary from piece to piece.

With a combo, it's probably a crapshoot for the blue, because (I would guess) the combos are selected for the coticule quality, not the BBW quality. As such, I think you are more likely to get a good BBW if you get a glued combo. Someone said somewhere that buying a natural combo is like buying a coti with a mystery hone attached.

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

With a combo, it's probably a crapshoot for the blue, because (I would guess) the combos are selected for the coticule quality, not the BBW quality..

Wow, so all of you are saying there are substantial differences in the BBW but my observation was just randomnd not the norm. To be honest, I have for most of my life poo-pood the BBW when ever it came up in coversation and nevr recommended it to anyone because the only one I knew was one that my father had that was really a poor example. Then years later in the last year or so, I stumbled on two of them out of the few I own that cut very fast, and the only thig lacking is they are on the small size. I ordered a 8X3 not too long ago and did not get so lucky, and it is hard to get suppliers to select specific BBW from my experience. As far as I am concerned now is I would love to get another larger size one with the superior cutting power...bu like you said it is a "crapshoot".

Yeah, there is a lot of variation BBWs as well as with coticules. There's been some experimentation by Bart, and he's working on establishing a technique to get good edges off of BBWs alone (without the need for chrom ox on the stone or any other pasted strop). I'm participating in a blind shave test (so to speak) where his techniques will be tested against a regular Unicot edge from a coticule and 2 BBWs (1 from a combo hone and 1 BBW only)

I'll have a thread showing the results after the testing is over.

Originally Posted by richmondesi

Yeah, there is a lot of variation BBWs as well as with coticules. There's been some experimentation by Bart, and he's working on establishing a technique to get good edges off of BBWs alone (without the need for chrom ox on the stone or any other pasted strop). I'm participating in a blind shave test (so to speak) where his techniques will be tested against a regular Unicot edge from a coticule and 2 BBWs (1 from a combo hone and 1 BBW only)

I'll have a thread showing the results after the testing is over.

That will be one to look foward to Paul!!

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Are we talking about the blue belgian here? The backing used for the coticules is not the blue belgian material its slate. Blue Belgians certainly are well known hones and are mined as such just they are coarser than the coticules.

We are. I specifically mentioned vintage BBW and used the past tense. BBW may be a well known hone now, but it wasn't when it was used as backing for Coticules. And as it wasn't, it wasn't mined as such, let alone selected for honing quality.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

The difference between the plain Blues and the combo's is the proximity of the blue to the yellow in situ but that doesn't necessarity mean it's better quality. There are many reasons why any natural material can vary from piece to piece.

That's what I wrote. Consistency of modern ones seems to be better however, as they are selected for their qualities as hones. Of the old ones, some happen to be very, very good, and others not so much. There's bound to be a correlation between Coticule vein and usefulness of the naturally bound BBW, but I haven't figured that out yet.

As for Bart's test: yes, most interesting! - as is almost anything he writes on Coticules/BBW


edit: notwithstanding the above, I still think that there are other natural hones that do what BBW does better and faster, and that for razor honers, there is no compelling practical reason to buy one.

Originally Posted by Oldengaerde

edit: notwithstanding the above, I still think that there are other natural hones that do what BBW does better and faster, and that for razor honers, there is no compelling practical reason to buy one.

Ouch!!!!!!