Thread: Swaty Stones for finishing

Originally Posted by Brando

Thank you Jimmy I just picked up a swaty from Glen, I had no Idea they were 2 sided hones. Is the back side the coarser side?

The back side is 'bigger'.
Most barber hones have only one grit.

If you look at the side and there is a difference between
the top and bottom then you may have a double grit hone.

The best answer is to ask Glen he tests all his hones
and he had your hone in his hands.

There is also a wear effect. After 50 years the back may
have more wear and the other side with writing may have a slightly
finer feel.

Originally Posted by Brando

Thank you Jimmy I just picked up a swaty from Glen, I had no Idea they were 2 sided hones. Is the back side the coarser side?

Here is yet another set of Swaty instructions in PDF format that doesn't specify two different sides. So I don't know how to tell other than honing on one side, checking out the scratch pattern under magnification and seeing if there is a difference. It seems that they made some models that were fine/finer and some that were only one grit. The instructions I posted for the Swaty Alumina in the previous post came with one of mine. I can't tell by look or feel that one is finer than the other. Glen may be able to shed light on it as Tom said.

I remain of the opinion that most Swaty hones are NOT two sided. I have spent a lot of time examining Swaty hones under the microscope and have yet to see any difference between the two sides of the hone, nor have I ever been able to detect any functional difference between the two sides. It's obvious that Swaty hones are made from aluminum oxide but I'm not certain that all Swatys correspond with the instructions for the Swaty Alumin.




I should note that I own about 20 Swatys but none of them are identified as a Swaty Alumin. I have seen several examples of the instruction sheets, like Jimmy's, for the Swaty Alumin but has anyone found a hone that is in any way identified as a "Swaty Alumin?" If so, I will gladly pay any shipping charges for the opportunity to examine your hone under a microscope.

Originally Posted by Utopian

I remain of the opinion that most Swaty hones are NOT two sided. I have spent a lot of time examining Swaty hones under the microscope and have yet to see any difference between the two sides of the hone, nor have I ever been able to detect any functional difference between the two sides. It's obvious that Swaty hones are made from aluminum oxide but I'm not certain that all Swatys correspond with the instructions for the Swaty Alumin.




I should note that I own about 20 Swatys but none of them are identified as a Swaty Alumin. I have seen several examples of the instruction sheets, like Jimmy's, for the Swaty Alumin but has anyone found a hone that is in any way identified as a "Swaty Alumin?" If so, I will gladly pay any shipping charges for the opportunity to examine your hone under a microscope.

Ron, as it happens the NOS Swaty Alumin that those instructions came with are for a long Swaty. I seem to recall that you have a long Swaty and it is possible that it too is an alumin. I was thinking of the competition that Swaty had back in those days. You had the C-Mon, Dubl Duck, Frictionite and itsapeech all with two sides. Could be that they did a trail run of two sided hones to try and match their competitors ? Check out your long one and see if there is any difference. I wouldn't be surprised if it is the same as my Aumin.

I do very much appreciate all the advise and I will use it. I think I have become obsessed with this stuff since my shaves are getting better and better.
I am glad my wife does not see the credit card bill I use to buy all this stuff!!

Any recommendation on a new finishing stone?
PS I read the wiki and a bunch of other threads. I guess my reading comprehension is a little under the norm.

Originally Posted by Brando

Thank you Jimmy I just picked up a swaty from Glen, I had no Idea they were 2 sided hones. Is the back side the coarser side?

That one is not two sided,,, it is also a very fine grit one comparatively speaking..

Like Ron I just haven't found all that much difference in Swaty's, although I am pretty sure there were some special ones out there...
I have had one, honest "Three Line" go through my hands and it was the slickest feeling one of the Swaty line I have felt... But even that was barely noticeable...

BTW when I say honest three line, I mean that it was stamped with the words "Three Line" I haven't noticed any difference between two lines of text and three lines of text...
I have noticed a difference in the Pike's Swaty though, it is a much softer composition, and feels more like a velvet touch stone...

To me there seems to be two types of feelings to the Swaty's, the normal feeling and a very slightly slicker one and honestly I am not 100% sure about that it could just be my imagination...

I have a 2 sided NOS Swaty. It looks like the coarser side of the hone consists of a thin layer that looks like it was painted on it. I may well be that many Swatys lost it with use.

If the soap, water,comet does not work then use some oven cleaner on the hone. It is very effective.
I would then use the finest grit sandpaper I could find (2000 grit or finer) to "refresh" the cutting surface ( a light lapping).

Just my $.02,

Hey all - while we're on the subject of Swatys - I picked one up recently and went to lapping it with my DMT D8C (325 grit), and got almost NO where - it was like I was rubbing it with glass. I worked at it HARD for 30-45 minutes and made VERY little progress. Am I missing something? Do I need to use a DMT X-Coarse? Or maybe 60 grit sandpaper?

Also, a few posters near the top spoke of Swatys being excellent for refreshing a blade. What is the difference between a hone being good at finishing and good at refreshing? For instance, if one had a finisher finer than a Swaty, is there any way in which a Swaty would be better at refreshing - and *wouldnt* "bring down" the edge from that finer finisher? I hope I'm being clear.

Cheers.

Originally Posted by Mijbil

Hey all - while we're on the subject of Swatys - I picked one up recently and went to lapping it with my DMT D8C (325 grit), and got almost NO where - it was like I was rubbing it with glass. I worked at it HARD for 30-45 minutes and made VERY little progress. Am I missing something? Do I need to use a DMT X-Coarse? Or maybe 60 grit sandpaper?

Also, a few posters near the top spoke of Swatys being excellent for refreshing a blade. What is the difference between a hone being good at finishing and good at refreshing? For instance, if one had a finisher finer than a Swaty, is there any way in which a Swaty would be better at refreshing - and *wouldnt* "bring down" the edge from that finer finisher? I hope I'm being clear.

Cheers.

That is why I don't lap them before trying them as is anymore. ChrisL and Utopian found the DMT D8XX 120 was far more efficient in lapping the barber hones. I broke down and bought one of those and indeed it is. Regardless of which plate or low to medium grit you use you'll find that the smooth/shiny finish of the Swaty will be dull and a bit rougher. ChrisL would take it up through fine grit papers to restore something like the original finish.

IIRC these barber hones are made with aluminum oxide as the abrasive. They are designed to cut quickly. The instructions found with most that I have seen stress that only a few strokes are needed. What I have been doing with these barber hones is test shaving with a razor and doing a first pass. If the first pass is good but could have been better I'll do a few strokes on the barber hone and then do a second pass to see if I feel an appreciable difference. I've done this, once in a while, with my long Swaty, Frictionite, C-mon and itsapeech with very good results.

My impression is that a finishing stone can be used in the same way but is even finer and is not designed to cut as fast. So the barber hone is a different breed of cat than a 12 or 16k waterstone designed for finishing. Just IMHO.