Thread: Swaty Stones for finishing

Originally Posted by randydance062449

.....snip....
Regarding the abrasive used.... it was referred to as "1 hour flour". No other specifics were given.

One hour flour would be fine stuff.

Run the abrasive through a ball mill and then classify
it by suspending in water. The bit that is still suspended
in water after an hour would be what they used.

Anyone that has diamond spray bottles can time their
diamond the same way. Line up 2, 1, 0.5, 0.25 micron
shake them well and set on a shelf marking the time.
Take note how long they take to clear.
http://www.d.umn.edu/~pfarrell/Soils...background.pdf

If you loose the labels on your diamond spray you can still
figure out which is which ....

Those that wash and save slurry can collect a bit then disperse
the slurry again suspending it in water. Then decant off
the plus one or two hour suspension to use as a home made
pasted strop treatment.

Originally Posted by Mijbil

Thanks for your thoughts, Randy, and as I said in my original post, i understand that this is the commonplace about barber hones, but I'm still trying to understand exactly why, exactly what the principles are behind it. Based on what Jimmy says, the only disadvantage to using a finishing hone instead of a barber hone would be that one would hve to do more laps. Although with a fast-cutting hone, like a japanese natural or an Escher (I think, Id ont have one),They are not fast cutters. I'm not sure that would be true. Furthermore, I still dont understand exactly why using the barber hone to touch up an edge that was finished with a substantially finer finishing hone wouldnt "bring down" the edge.It would in theory but you only use the barber hone when that edge has degraded to the point where it is starting to pull Or, if the edge were sufficiently dulled already, it might not bring it down, but I dont see why the superior finishing hone wouldnt still get you a much better result. It would but it takes longer and when your in the middle of a shave time is important.

Also - interesting what was said about many of the barber hones being aluminum oxide.I doubt that, silicon carbide, crocus,carborundum, quartz and other minerals have all been used for grinding and also aluminum comes in many different varieties each with their own characteristics. I will bet that most all minerals, natural and man made, have been tried in the past. But that then raises the question - why is there then such variation in how they perform? And if Swatys are made of the same material as many/most others, why are Swatys considered so good, not just average?

IMHO, the reasons for the popularity of the barber hones have already been mentioned.... cost, portability, convenience and rapid abrasion.
Although they do not give the very finest of edges they are very serviceable. The other point is that different beard/skin types will prefer different edges so there is room in the market for variety. One edge finish does not fit all faces.

Finishing.... ya, in theory you could use a barber hone as a finisher, if that suits your beard/skin type. I have done that when I first started out. But...we have found that there are much finer and smoother edges to be had as did our grandfathers. Just look at all the old Escher, Coticules,Tam O'Shanter, Water of Ayr, etc that are available. One of the reasons they were not as popular as the barber hones is cost. The barber hones were much more affordable.

You are going to have fun experimenting with the different hones and abrasive pastes but be warned ... there is always something new to try!

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

One hour flour would be fine stuff.

Run the abrasive through a ball mill and then classify
it by suspending in water. The bit that is still suspended
in water after an hour would be what they used.

Hmmmm... 50 gallon tank of water, mix in 10 lbs of abrasive, let sit for 1 hour, drain and save the top 90%, then what?.....let it evaporate? run it thru a fine 800 thread count cloth?......?

The old documents referenced the mixing and suspension in a liquid but nothing more about the process. I guess evaporation would be the most likely method.

Originally Posted by randydance062449

Hmmmm... 50 gallon tank of water, mix in 10 lbs of abrasive, let sit for 1 hour, drain and save the top 90%, then what?.....let it evaporate? run it thru a fine 800 thread count cloth?......?

The old documents referenced the mixing and suspension in a liquid but nothing more about the process. I guess evaporation would be the most likely method.

Evaporation or a paper filter after decanting
the top 60% or so.

The point is that settling time translates to grit size
in a rough way (particle size). But if you buy ten
pounds of abrasive it will already be of a uniform size.

These guys would have taken unclassified abrasives
and pulverized it further in a mill of some kind and then
classified it further. In the case of ceramic hones
both the abrasive and the mud/ceramic would also
be classified to eliminate stuff from that side. The
ratio of pulverized clay, grog and abrasive would impact cost
and quality but all the components would need to
be sized.

If you happen to be near an outlet for sand blasting abrasives
and hydro cutting abrasives they have 'micro' fine abrasives.
Loose abrasive suspension could be sprayed on a cast iron plate or
a glass plate and be used as a hone too.

I took all the advice from this thread, read as much as I could and then went to work. Took the razor, which is a relatively new Dovo that I have been "learning" on and ran it on the newly purchased Swaty. I guess I did 6-8 laps on each side and then stropped it about 30-40 times.
I then went about my normal shower and shave and found there was a huge difference in the blade. No pulling on the chin!!! At all!! I think I am getting the idea of what a shave with a properly honed and stropped blade can feel like. I am now also hooked on learning to hone my own razors.

What would be a good stone to have that would compliment the Swaty?

Originally Posted by Mvcrash

I took all the advice from this thread, read as much as I could and then went to work. Took the razor, which is a relatively new Dovo that I have been "learning" on and ran it on the newly purchased Swaty. I guess I did 6-8 laps on each side and then stropped it about 30-40 times.
I then went about my normal shower and shave and found there was a huge difference in the blade. No pulling on the chin!!! At all!! I think I am getting the idea of what a shave with a properly honed and stropped blade can feel like. I am now also hooked on learning to hone my own razors.

What would be a good stone to have that would compliment the Swaty?

Sounds like you can hone your razor now.
Keep to the 3-6 laps once in a while followed by the strop and you
will be good to go for a long time.

When someone says: "No pulling on the chin!!! At all!!" I am tempted
to say good job -- call it done. Use your Swaty very lightly once a month
and you are likely good to go for a long time.

As for hones....
I have fallen for my Naniwa Super Stone 12K for maintaining
my shaving rotation. My Norton 4K/8K hone is still my favorite
historic hone purchase and with some help from some inexpensive
bench stones can bring many edges under control.

Hi All
I'm new and was reading about the Swaty hones. I just bought a Pike Swaty on eBay that is barely used or not used at all. I had felt a very distinct difference between the two sides. The side with the logo is slicker, the other side feels more rough. I can't see the dual-composition look on the edge as on the Norton 4000/8000, but this definitely feels different on each side.

As someone said, maybe one side has an application of a thin layer of some compound to change the grit?

Or maybe my fingers are just not very accurate, another possibility!

Be sure to clean that hone first. Then use an old razor on both sides of the Pike hone. The razor will tell you if one side is different from the other.

I appreciate the advice. It does seem to have been used a bit more than I originally thought.

What's the best way to clean one of these? What exactly am I cleaning off the stone?

Welcome to SRP Lawson. I take scotch brite pads and comet and wash it off. Lapping with sandpaper or a diamond plate may be advisable but I always try them as is before I go to that step. A Pike Swaty may be a different hone than an Austrian Swaty but it should be good for touching up a sharp razor. Read my sig below to avoid nicks and cuts and for more good info in the SRP Wiki link.