Thread: New hone from Japan, pictures

Originally Posted by kevint

Why would you have to wait two weeks? What laq takes a week to cure?



>>>>whoops quoted the wrong thread, but still why 2 weeks?

That's OK - never stopped me from responding.
Now, where was I.....?

Originally Posted by jeffus

That's what Old_School taught me, so I'll stick with it. Japanese lacquer.

But the guy at the store did tell Keiko that we don't really need that specialty lacquer and can just use any type of sealant. This rock appears very dense and does not seem likely to fall apart easily.

Not sure I will have much choice here in the States though. Will just have to get what I can.

urushi dries in a few weeks, cashew lacquer dries in a day or two depending how thick you use it. I have been told that really any type of lacquer will work too.
If the stone does not have a crack or lines that it can split along you do not have to lacquer. If I am not wrong in Japan, the stones are left outdoors and temperature changes can cause splitting. Lacquering the stone prevents that.

you have been misinformed.
Urushi which I have used many many times can be cured in two days- sometimes one. in the proper conditions. It should never be applied in an especially thick coating as sometimes the outer surface will form a skin and leave the interior uncured. very messy.

Kashew is just an oil based paint. I have never used it- but i have heard it dries just like other oil basedpaint.

other sealers will work but it would be best to use a material that will not soak in deeply-especially those that soak up a lot of water.

I dont think you can say accurately that these stones need no coating. We can say "it depends"; however, the idea that they were stored outside historically is just silly. The only time they were stored outside is in their natural condition on or under the ground.

Kevin,
I used it and looks like any other lacquer to me.
By consistency and appearance cashew lacquer is not paint am I wrong?

Urushi is lacquer. Everything else is attempt to mimic its appearance. Or has split of from "japanning" and become clear coat.

I have not researched Cashew, kashew very much. It was developed in the 1930's i believe as a safe alternative, and cheaper, and easier to use than urushi.

Like oil paint kashew dries / cures via evaporation; wheres urushi does not.
urushi cures from a chemical reaction with water vapor.

Originally Posted by kevint

Urushi is lacquer. Everything else is attempt to mimic its appearance. Or has split of from "japanning" and become clear coat.

I have not researched Cashew, kashew very much. It was developed in the 1930's i believe as a safe alternative, and cheaper, and easier to use than urushi.

Like oil paint kashew dries / cures via evaporation; wheres urushi does not.
urushi cures from a chemical reaction with water vapor.

i just looked up what Namikawa states about cashew, it is synthetic while urushi is natural.
Urushi also causes severe allergic reactions, but in any case cashew worked very well for me.

Originally Posted by kevint

you have been misinformed.
Urushi which I have used many many times can be cured in two days- sometimes one. in the proper conditions. It should never be applied in an especially thick coating as sometimes the outer surface will form a skin and leave the interior uncured. very messy.

I guess I'm misinformed, then.

The urushi I've used took a week to dry between coats on my stones. I used it straight out of the bottle, and the thickness was like molasses. Dries hard like a thick acrylic jacket, though.

In fairness, I've been told by a knowledgeable source that cashew or modern lacquer serves the same purpose, and doesn't give the amber hue that urushi does.

This is a great direction for this thread, thank you for talking about lacquer.

Originally Posted by FatboySlim

The urushi I've used took a week to dry between coats on my stones. I used it straight out of the bottle, and the thickness was like molasses. Dries hard like a thick acrylic jacket, though.

Sounds exactly like the stuff I bought from Old_School. Trying to find some from an art store in the Seattle area that has some, told this place might:
Art Supplies from Daniel Smith Art Materials

regards,
jeff

Originally Posted by FatboySlim

I guess I'm misinformed, then.

The urushi I've used took a week to dry between coats on my stones. I used it straight out of the bottle, and the thickness was like molasses. Dries hard like a thick acrylic jacket, though.

In fairness, I've been told by a knowledgeable source that cashew or modern lacquer serves the same purpose, and doesn't give the amber hue that urushi does.

urushi comes in different colors, red, black and yellow or clear, you probably had the yellow/clear one.

Cashew is very thick out of the can, and dries in ~1 day.
It bullet proofs the stone.

Jeff, I bought mine from Old_School, too, in the little plastic bottles. I don't know how representative it is of all urushi, as it's the only urushi I've used. I have two other stones that came with lacquer already applied, which I'm sure is urushi. Urushi seems to have a very distinctive smell and texture even when dried/cured, that I like very much.

As thick and difficult as it was to work with, and slow to fully dry (due to the thickness), I'm very happy with the results.

I coated both the sides and the bottom of my stones, which took a fair amount of urushi. I have since learned that traditionally, only the sides of the stone are coated, not the entire bottom. In spite of my going overboard, I like it.

Other than the amber hue, the thickness and hardness reminds me of old-fashioned bars that have coins encased in lacquer. i go for old-fashioned stuff in general, so this appeals to me, and I don't regret going overboard. My Nakayama Asagi is now like a prehistoric insect encased in amber.

When I told a friend in Japan about this, his response was along the lines of "Real urushi?! Nobody uses that any more. Modern lacquer is clear so it doesn't color the stone, and it has the same protective properties as real urushi, but isn't toxic." But, I really wanted to use genuine urushi on my stone just to be completely traditional Japanese, so I don't regret it.

Maybe there's a thinner urushi mixture out there, or maybe I could have used turpentine to thin it. But I hate the smell of turpentine, and love the smell of urushi, wet or dry. It has a very old fashioned, organic smell that is somehow familiar to me, like something from childhood that I can't quite place. Maybe something similar to urushi was used in paint many years ago, and I'm picking up on that, I don't know.