Thread: New hone from Japan, pictures

Stefan, that is BEAUTIFUL! The chisel cuts are like modern art.

Originally Posted by mainaman

urushi comes in different colors, red, black and yellow or clear, you probably had the yellow/clear one.

Cashew is very thick out of the can, and dries in ~1 day.
It bullet proofs the stone.

Originally Posted by FatboySlim

I guess I'm misinformed, then.

The urushi I've used took a week to dry between coats on my stones. I used it straight out of the bottle, and the thickness was like molasses. Dries hard like a thick acrylic jacket, though.

In fairness, I've been told by a knowledgeable source that cashew or modern lacquer serves the same purpose, and doesn't give the amber hue that urushi does.

there are several links available via google that will explain the basics of proper curing techniques.

There are different grades of true urushi and the higher grades used in Japan for the really fantastic traditional craft items are always produced with domestically grown urushi from the Toxicodendron vernicifluum tree. The lower grades of urushi may come from China or even Thailand where the cost of production is lower but the tree is basically the same. The tree that produces urushi is very similar to the Poison Sumac tree found in the U.S..

When I worked for a short while in Japan as a carpenter in the 1970s I had the honor of learning the basic technique of applying urushi. In traditional homes a few posts and some beams are coated with urushi, and I remember that the head carpenters worked on these during rainy days in a tent set up inside the shop for this purpose only. Not everyone in the crew was allowed to apply urushi, and I think the offer to me created a certain animosity amongst the other crew. After I left that job I went to a urushi shop to buy a jar to bring back with me to the states. The smallest size they had was equal to a little less than 1 cup. The cost was $140. I left it on the shelf needless to say.

Usually urushi is applied in extremely thin coats and although I do not know what the thinner is, the product probably is ordered from the urushi shop formulated specifically for the task at hand. I have also seen the handmade brushes used for applying urushi to curved and concave surfaces and even the brushes cost hundreds of dollars. And these were 1970s dollars, but the brushes were a lifetime investment and deemed as professional tools.

I know that some awasedo sharpening stones when coated with urushi, have a layer of mulberry paper laid in between coats to add a fiborus mesh or netting. I myself do not coat my stones, the ones I use or the ones I sell. The stones I use I do not coat because I frankly don't use them that often. I figure you need to be splashing an awful lot of water on them in order for the stone to be so over soaked to expand enough to split. If you do have a stone with a distinctive inclusion, no harm in coating the stone. I sold a $3200 Nakayama stone (my NAKAYAMA #6)to a preeminent furniture maker on the east coat that had a serious inclusion, it was one of those I don't need it but I can't live without it moments. He coated it with the urushi/paper/urushi technique, and it has become one of his "go to" stones.

In the retail trade urushi can be used to cover up flaws in stones. A really great stone like the above maybe worth taking a chance but any stone at retail should be scrutinized if there is a coat of urushi or anything else that is opaque.

Personally I feel the stone should be able to breathe, to expel any moisture through evaporation naturally through the sides and the back. This is fine under light occasional useage, however if you are working your stones all day long like in a professional shop you may want to coat your stone. I think it is a bad idea to lay an uncoated natural stone on a wet towel because of the absorbability factor, and I use my stones mounted either in a commerical stone holder or a dedicated wooden stone holder with drainage holes to outflow any extra water. I would have a hard time believing that anyone sharpening straight razors would be spending hour after hour on any one particular stone flushed with water to warrent fully coating a stone. just my 2 cents, Alx

Thanks Alex. In my ignorance I always thought. well now, they must have thought highly of this piece to go to such effort to keep it preserved. I never imagined a cover-up. I will keep it in mind if I ever get another stone.

Kevin
No, I think you are on to something. A special stone may need some stabilization, and urushi is the correct and most expensive way to do it. You may find a stone already coated and done so to keep it in play so it can be enjoyed. But unless there is an inclusion, a clear stone would not necessarly need a patch job. Alx

Hmmm. Well, Alex, you've got me thinking. When I was at Tanaka hones, I saw that probably 90% of the hones there were lacquered on the sides. He had a whole rack of them curing (he uses Cashew, not Urushi. I'm sure his Urushi costs would have been through the roof...) when I was in there. Should I be suspicious of his hones?

The lacquered stones went from $50 koppa to $4000 okudo suita benchstones...

Originally Posted by jeffus

My wife just returned from Japan and picked up a new stone for me. Price was US$500. I don't know anything about it yet, and have not tried it. Size is (roughly) in cm: 15 x 8 x 2.5, or in inches: 6 x 3.25 x 1.

very nice .......

Hello Jim
I do not think that Tanaka would continue in business, and he is a mine owner too, if he was covering flaws in so many stones. They are most likely very good stones and it is probably his understanding of the market that he is targeting, that providing a service by sealing up his stones prior to selling them will help his sales. At $4000 though I would want to see all of the sides and back of the stone, but if the lacquer is clear enough, well even then I would like to have a clear view of the stone at all angles. Like with Stefans stone, you can pretty well see the stone through the sealer, at at those price points that should be sufficient. Alx

Originally Posted by alx

Hello Jim
I do not think that Tanaka would continue in business, and he is a mine owner too, if he was covering flaws in so many stones. They are most likely very good stones and it is probably his understanding of the market that he is targeting, that providing a service by sealing up his stones prior to selling them will help his sales. At $4000 though I would want to see all of the sides and back of the stone, but if the lacquer is clear enough, well even then I would like to have a clear view of the stone at all angles. Like with Stefans stone, you can pretty well see the stone through the sealer, at at those price points that should be sufficient. Alx

Alex,
I just want to say I went full strength with the cashew lacquer on this stone, and its an overkill I think

quick update on the yellow stone:

With just water it is amazing for a touch up. Really really amazing. Smooth and crisp. Used it with a T. Hessen and Fil #13 DT and they shaved beautifully.

Loaned it to Sham for a while. He said that with slurry it is very slow but creates a very sharp and fine edge.

Lucked out considering wife picked it out based upon color.