Thread: Re-visting the Chinese Hone

Originally Posted by ffourteen

So just to give an update, I got the phig (the larger one, as recommended--it is gray with a light grain, like the second hone in the picture a few pages back). Lapped it on 220, then 600, then 1000 grit sandpaper with a little bit of water; didn't spend too long, I'd say 20 to 30 minutes total. When I looked at it at a steep angle with a light it had a mirror-like surface, so I decided to try refreshing the razor. I did 20 passes with my razor on the stone and was able to feel a difference in sharpness with my thumb (before, when I passed a moist thumb across the blade it felt slick, after 20 passes I felt a sort of vibrating and it made a sound something like the sound it makes when shaving *note: the razor is full hollow ground). So I decided to strop it as normal on clean leather and shave with it. MUCH less pulling than the previous shave, though still a very little bit. After one pass my skin felt totally smooth when I rubbed it with the grain, but still a little prickly when I rubbed against the grain (and I'm still not getting as close of a shave under my chin and throat as I am across my face).
Anyway, thanks for the help everyone. It seems I'm on the right track and with some practice and playing around should be able to keep the razor is good shape.
One more small question, I think I had read that it takes a few shaves after a hone (and refresh?) to start getting the best results. Should I give the razor a couple more shaves and see if it improves, or should I try a few more passes on the phig? I am still working on my shaving technique... but I've shaved enough that I'm pretty sure the result today was about the razor, and not me (mostly).

The first shave is the best, in almost all stones and razors. The DE blades improve after a few shaves, depending on how you like your edge. On our classic razors there is no such a thing. Not that I'm aware of anyway. If you are not satisfied with your edge, keep honing. 20 strokes are too few for this stone, and there is not a chance for overhoning on this stone.
If you got a slurry stone, you can try it too as it speeds up things, but on another razor or instance, since this one seems almost shave ready from what I read.

Like has been said take it back to the stone if you think your edge can be improved. While I agree twenty is a bit low for this stone. I would say stay with only doing twenty laps testing the edge on your thumb like before and shaving with it.

While you may lose a couple great shaves this way it will teach you the feel a of a sharp razor developing on this stone. That way in the future when you need to touch up you know exactly the feel on your thumb your looking for.

Originally Posted by ffourteen

It seems I'm on the right track and with some practice and playing around should be able to keep the razor in good shape.

Yes! Yes!! Yes!!!
As long as you experiment and pay attention to your results, then you will do great.

Originally Posted by ffourteen

Should I give the razor a couple more shaves and see if it improves, or should I try a few more passes on the phig? I am still working on my shaving technique... but I've shaved enough that I'm pretty sure the result today was about the razor, and not me (mostly).

I guess I don't have a strong opinion either way, since either way will work to get you closer to a better shave. Go with your gut!

Remember that this stone is slow, IMHO 20 passes isn't enough, I do 100+ (sped up with circles and 1/2 x-strokes). The stone will also feel sort of sticky as it is so smooth it causes sticktion between the razor and stone, I know I'm getting close the more it sticks

Funny timing this thread popping up again. A while back looking at the Woodcraft store locator I realized I will be passing by one in a couple weeks. You can imagine where this lead. I also noticed using their 'in stock' item tester for the local store they have one in stock. I hold the stone while honing so am interested in the smaller one. I keep telling myself since I will actually be able to hold the stone before buying that I can always pass on it. Really I could.

At $26 I shouldn't get much resistance from the war department, and i've been wanting a DMT credit card...

Even if the one they have there isn't an amazing razor finisher, the PHIG's make amazing finishing stones for kitchen knives where more pressure is able to be applied.

Not sure if this is the right thread for this question, but it is kind of a follow-up on the previous discussion...
I ended up getting up to 80 passes last month, 20 at a time with shave-tests between. Nice and sharp. However, one month later the razor was pulling again. I went straight to 100 passes on the PHIG today, stropped the razor, and had the best shave of my life. Everything is great except... why so soon? I read that refreshing should be a once every 3 months issue.
The usual culprit seems to be stropping technique (the razor is a Bismarck, which I have read hold their edge well, so it shouldn't be a steel problem). Possible I guess, but I feel that my stropping is ok. Assuming that's not the issue, what else could it be? The way I wipe it with tissue after shaving? The way I wipe it with cotton when oiling? (I do both of these with the same general idea as stropping, pulling the razor away from the edge across the material). Any ideas?
I was also wondering... as the rate of refreshing seems to be measured in time... what are the assumptions? I have only the one razor, and shave 6 days a week with it. Should I still be assuming that a refresh should only come around once every 3 months? Or might once a month be expected?

That's really tough to figure out. Really it could be umpteen different things. Beard growth, how the edge is honed, on which stone its honed, stropping technique, shaving technique etc etc. I'm thinking since you're using it much more then guys with massive rotations that only use their razors maybe once a week, your rate of touch up will be much higher.

Just touch up when it pulls and all will be well

A month is not bad depending on your technique, beard, the individual razor ...

Cheers, Steve

So, the finish stone always get the blame, kind of like blaming a bad paint job on the wax.

Yes stropping is often the culprit, but even then stropping only reveals edge issues. If the edge is weak from aggressive low grit honing, those issues are magnified by improper stropping, lifting the spine just once can roll a weak edge easily, which then breaks off.

How the blade was honed and with which stones and excessive pressure are often causes of edge issues. You can often tell, by looking at the edge, and determining the cause by what you see and then… fixing that.

Yes sometimes doing a lot of laps (hundreds) on a finish stone can “Fix” some issues, but really you are doing a form of one stone honing, and is no guarantee of averting edge failure.

These stones are hard and very capable of producing a fine shaving edge, but because of the hardness and slow cutting, edge preparation will dictate the finish. A proper edge is built, one step at a time. When I use them, I do so after a 12k super stone edge.

Look at the edge and fix the cause of what you see, otherwise you are just guessing…