Thread: Jump from Shapton GS HC 4k to GS HC 8k possible?

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

DC, were you also sharpening chef's knives on the Norton ? That is a fair amount of hone to wear out with just razors.

Yes that 4/8k Norton was originaly bought a year or so before I discovered straights. Hiromoto AS, Takeda AS, Moritaka AS, and other dozens of Japanes kitchen knives have gone over that stone.

You can feel the 4k disintigrate under the AS steel within a few strokes you can tell it will need to be flattened again...

So ya I went threw that bugger in about 2 years.

who said I made these comparisons in one day?

Like I said, I almost went through all possible setups available in europe
(that is Shapton Pro 2k, 5k, 8k, 12k; Naniwa Super 1k, 2k, 3k, 5k, 8k, 10k; Naniwa Chosera 1k, 5k, 10k; Cerax/Suehiro 1k, 3k, 6k, 8k (gold); [King 1k, 6k];
and several naturals, mostly finishers.)

Quickness, here you are right, is a tricky thing to compare.
It can be described as the time a stone of one specific setup takes to erase the scratches (or teeth)
of the nexp coarse stone from the same set.
I would call this relative speed.
But this does not necessary indicate cutting power!

Cutting power is either the time it takes to set a complete bevel (and/or erase a microbevel),
or for finer stones the time it takes a stone in the polishing ~8k range to erase one specific scratch pattern.
I chose the hardest scratch pattern so far, the Chosera 5k.

The naniwa super 8k is capable of erasing the scratch makrs completely but it takes quite a few circles.
The Shapton GS HC 8k was not capable of doing so.
Therefore I think it lacks a bit of absolute cutting power.
This is important if one wants to compare or mix stones from different companies.
Maybe, and that´s what I am hoping for, the HC turn out to be a quick system, where each stone is able to erease the sets previous ones scratches.
That would make it a quick system.

But be aware, I am in no way taking this as finalized and determined,
neither should you! This is just my way of examination for sharpening systems and stones in search for the set of stones
that will give nice feedback, polish brightly and give keen edges.
And note I don´t have thousands of razors, just a couple of old ones and new ones.
So I won´t comment on differences in hardnes. But I think I got some quite hard buggers, like Wacker, Thiers Issard,
and some of those "softer" vintage ones. Although these have slight impact on the cutting power of a stone,
I think this impact would be on all stones, so they would be comparable, again.

I don´t quite understand the coticule slurry question.
If I set a bevel with heavy or normal slurry (not diluting)
I get a very matte bevel. Under the loupe I can see chaotic scratches like a wire mesh.
Under microscopic magnification a scratch pattern becomes evident.
(if diluting the slurry, the scratch pattern becomes more chaotic, and scratches stay shorter)
For illustration a picture from this blog:

http://hocktools.files.wordpress.com...2/500x2-up.jpg


If I jump to the Naniwa 8k for several circles,
the overall polish improves dramatically.
With the naked eye one could see a bright 3d luster.
Under a loupe some single scratches are still left,
that under the microscope turn out to be leftovers from the bevel setting.
What I think happens is that the SS8k is capable of removing the shorter, unoriented scratches quickliy,
but lacks the cutting power to remove deeper scratches instantly.

But if I stay on the ss8K it will eventually be able to remove even those.

The shapton HC 8k does not give a deep dark luster after the cuticule with slurry.
It removes superficial scratches and leaves a good finish, that is dissorted with a chaotic scratch pattern, leftovers from the cutting action of the coticule.
You can see under the microscope the HC 8k was trysing to polish the surface, and did so on spots were the sratches were shallow,
but failed to remove deeper scratches.

What does it say about the HC 8k?
Not much. What I think is a.) Naniwa Super 8k has more cutting power, and leaves a comparable finish b.) a coticule with heavy to medium slurry should not necessarily be used before a finisher c.) the absolute cutting power of the HC 8k might be compensated, if it plays more nicely with its team mates HC4k and so on.

Over a long period of time I have changed my setup to mainly shapton GS hones - I have the 2k, 8k (grey) and 16k. I usually restore razors, so almost always reset the bevel once chips, etc are removed, so the full progression is DMT 1200, shapton gs 2k, naniwa ss 5k, shapton gs 8k, shapton gs 16k. In getting to that series several other stones have come and gone, mainly naniwa ss hones, MST thuringians, king 1000/6000. None of the other stones has had an adverse effect on the shaptons that I have noticed. It's all steel to me, some harder, some softer. I don't think the hones care that much. I haven't heard them express an opinion, yet, anyway!

The 2k is there to remove the scratches from the DMT (which is there to ameliorate the scratches from the DMT fine and coarse plates, should I happen to need them). The naniwa is there solely to do fewer laps on each hone - it could very well be eliminated, but I think a shapton gs 4k will replace it one day.

I think that the naniwa and shapton grit measurements may differ a little. In any case most scratches are gone by the time I finish with the naniwa 5k, but I do more laps than are strictly necessary on the 8k shapton to get rid of nearly all of them.

Regards,
Neil

I just wanted to keep you posted.
I ordered the grey Shapton High Carbon in 4.000 AND 6.000.
HAD made me do it


What can I say, I am highly impressed with the HC-Series.
The 4k leaves a finish as good as that of a high class 6k stone.
The 6k HC polishes at the level of a mid class 8k stone
and the 8k leaves a very deep 3d scratch free polish that has no visible teeth under the microscope.
Absolutely impressive.
Maybe I will comment on that further when I got to know my stones a bit more.

But what I wanted to know is something different.

The HC4k stone is as slow, as I expected it to be.
That is, the Shapton HC series is a quick system b/c any stone
will erase the marks of the previous one quite quickly.
But obviously these stones do not mix well with other brands,
as they lack cutting power (no dark swarf on heavy duty 6k or 4k work at all).

Because the HC series only consists of 4k, 6k, 8k there is not a perfect bevelsetter in the series.
I am forced to mix the series.

I own a shapton professional 2.000 wich leaves quite a scratch.
The HC4k is not able to erase the scratches of the 2k, nor the Chosera 1k in a reasonable ammount of time.
Now I am guessing what to buy in between bevelsetter and HC4k.

I am thinking of a Superstone 3.000 as these tend to polish nicely for their respective grit.

I was also thinking of a normal white Glasstone 1.000, but am not sure if this would be smart as it is a 1.000 like any other and will leaves scratches that the 4k will probably not be able to erase.
It´s sad, I would have loved a medium cutter in the HC series and a complete Glasstone Setup

So what do you think, any comments on that?