Thread: Which one is better ? Kita Nashiji Suita or Nakayama Maruichi or HGAL Japanese

Originally Posted by Utopian

If you contact a reputable seller and ask a comparable question, the response you will get will be...

"For what purpose do you want the stone?"
"What is your honing experience?"
"What other hones do you have?"
and
"How much money do you have?"



If you really want the best advice on picking a hone, you'll need to provide us with more information.

I need Japanese Natural hone for straight razors.

Current in my tool box I have the following stones:
1. Naniwa (super stones ) 5k, 8k, 10k.
2. Shapton ceramic 12k.
3. Shapton ceramic glass 16k and 30k
All above mentioned stones are very good for straight razors maintenance and final honing before stropping on balsa and leather strops with diamond and chromium oxide pastes (0.25 and 0.5 microns).

Thanks

Actually... What is missing from your collection is lower grits for bevel setting. A J-Nat is not the most efficient way to set bevels but if you want an alternative to your Shapton 30k then yes a J-Nat can do the job. You just need to know what characteristics you want in the stone & be able to afford them if they are unobtainable in an inexpensive stone.

I totally agree with Oz, and I feel a bit daft that I missed it till now..!

Its quite possible that you're not getting a good edge because you dont have a fully established bevel before you move on to the high grit stones.

The 5k Naniwa is your lowest grit stone and thats a bit too high for proper bevel setting work. You'd be better off adding a 1k Shapton or Naniwa stone to your rotation and ensuring that you have a proper bevel set before moving up the grits.

You should easily be able to shave arm hair at skin level off the 1k stone, and if you cant do that then you dont have a proper bevel set.

Adding more high grit stones wont make the razor any sharper, all they add is polish to the edge. If you dont have a bevel set then all your expensive J-Nat will do is give you a very polished but dull edge.

Definately get yourself a 1k stone, and ensure your bevel is good to go before you move on to any higher grit stones.

[QUOTE=Unitouch;629892]"I need Japanese Natural hone for straight razors ..."

I agree with Onimaru55. You may only be missing a bevel setting hone. With the other hones you have, you should be able to get a great edge without needing a Japanese natural finishing hone.

If you are like me, I seem to justify my needs. I have more razors, hones, soaps, creams, etc. then I need to get a good shave. I am just getting into the Japanese Natural hones and they are alot of fun and I need more.

If you "need" a Japanese natural, then I would recommend contacting So at Japan Tool. You should send him an email. He is a great guy to deal with. It will most likely take some time before he gets back with you because he is extremely busy, but it is well worth it.

In the mean time, get a good bevel setting hone, as much experence honing as you can and start a J Nat hone savings fund. When So gets back with you, you will be better able to answer his questions regarding what you are looking for, what honing experience you have, what size hone are you looking for and what is your budget.

Good luck and have fun.

Originally Posted by Lynn

The only two people I trust on Japanese Naturals are So and a former member here Oldschool who used to get his stones from So.

You can't go wrong with So. I need another stone sooooooooo bad.........

Lynn

J-nats: crack cocaine for the straight shaving community.

Originally Posted by Unitouch

Hi,
30k Shapton hone, is really good but in some cases, some vintage razors cannot be honed (steel is really good). Also, I would really question if Naniwa 8k is enough for the razor to be shave ready. But again, it very depends on steel quality and blade hardness.

Sorry to hijack this thread, but Unitouch, I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean by saying "some vintage razors cannot be honed... [as the] steel is really good"... (re: 30k Shapton).

To say that a razor cannot be honed because the steel is really good is almost a paradox... Am I completely off track here gents?

Where would a finishing/polishing quality J Nat fit in the system of stones UniTouch has? Maybe that's unanswerable if the range of grit of J Nat stones/hones is widely variable. I'm just curious if the finest J Nat would be finer or less fine than a Shapton 30? A Shapton 16K? Where does a Belgian coticule fit in the grand scheme of things?

Originally Posted by fdennis

Where would a finishing/polishing quality J Nat fit in the system of stones UniTouch has? Maybe that's unanswerable if the range of grit of J Nat stones/hones is widely variable. I'm just curious if the finest J Nat would be finer or less fine than a Shapton 30? A Shapton 16K? Where does a Belgian coticule fit in the grand scheme of things?

J-nat should be interchangeable with Shapton 30k, what the finest grit is of a good J-nat is unknown.
For Coticules I have seen estimations in the range of 8-12k finish, but I am not sure how relevant that is. One thing is for sure one can get very good shave off a Coticule.

Originally Posted by fdennis

Where would a finishing/polishing quality J Nat fit in the system of stones UniTouch has? Maybe that's unanswerable if the range of grit of J Nat stones/hones is widely variable. I'm just curious if the finest J Nat would be finer or less fine than a Shapton 30? A Shapton 16K? Where does a Belgian coticule fit in the grand scheme of things?

It's a moot point as the particle shapes & their action are completely different for all these hones. The Shaptons cut small grooves into the steel whereas J-Nats work more like a wood plane shaving the steel. The Coticule with it's rhomboid shaped facets is almost a cross between the other two.
Suffice it to say they all do a great job in the right hands but IIRC I read a post where someone claimed to remove Shapton 30k scratches with a J-nat.

Originally Posted by fdennis

Where would a finishing/polishing quality J Nat fit in the system of stones UniTouch has? Maybe that's unanswerable if the range of grit of J Nat stones/hones is widely variable. I'm just curious if the finest J Nat would be finer or less fine than a Shapton 30? A Shapton 16K? Where does a Belgian coticule fit in the grand scheme of things?

door stops, shims, bath tiles.... just some of the uses for the stones you mention in a post-nice_working jnat lifestyle. Coticules excluded only because you just have to love the coti for itself, for being there