Thread: Nagura questions

Can anyone explain to me the point of Naguras?

If they speed up honing: why not use a coarser hone, or slurry made by using a rubbing stone of the same raw material as the hone you want to use the Nagura on?

If they create a keener edge: why not use a higher grit hone?

And finally: how do I match a Nagura to the hone I am using? Or a hone to the Nagura I have?

I'm simply intrigued with the idea of switching slurry rather than switching hones. That's what started this thread.

Originally Posted by Kees

Can anyone explain to me the point of Naguras?

If they speed up honing: why not use a coarser hone, or slurry made by using a rubbing stone of the same raw material as the hone you want to use the Nagura on?

If they create a keener edge: why not use a higher grit hone?

And finally: how do I match a Nagura to the hone I am using? Or a hone to the Nagura I have?

Just a clarification Nagura is the name of the stone it comes from Mikawa mine, from different seams which vary in fineness. The most popular ones are Botan (~ 8k) Mejiro (~15k) Koma (~20k and very rare).
Nagura does not speed up honing, its just another way to create progression for honing, using several different grades of Nagura stones on one finisher as a base. The final polishing job is done with the polishing stone itself.

You can use a piece of the same stone cut from it it is called Tomonagura, problem is one has to have the tools to cut their own stone and I am not sure people are willing to put an expensive stone to the saw.
Another way of creating slurry is to use a piece of another polishing stone called Honzan.


As far as nagura and stone compatibility you need your stone to be harder than the nagura, which should be the case with any Japanese natural razor hone.

Originally Posted by mainaman

Just a clarification Nagura is the name of the stone it comes from Mikawa mine, from different seams which vary in fineness. The most popular ones are Botan (~ 8k) Mejiro (~15k) Koma (~20k and very rare).
Nagura does not speed up honing, its just another way to create progression for honing, using several different grades of Nagura stones on one finisher as a base. The final polishing job is done with the polishing stone itself.

You can use a piece of the same stone cut from it it is called Tomonagura, problem is one has to have the tools to cut their own stone and I am not sure people are willing to put an expensive stone to the saw.
Another way of creating slurry is to use a piece of another polishing stone called Honzan.


As far as nagura and stone compatibility you need your stone to be harder than the nagura, which should be the case with any Japanese natural razor hone.

Botan is as high as 8k you think? I've never tried a botan, but my Meijiro edges don't feel like they have come off all that fine a slurry. Also, I think Jim goes straight from bevel setting to botan. It must cut really quickly if it's in the 8k range.

I wouldn't put the actual grit of the nagura anywhere near as high as Stefan, but the real importance is how they act--not only do they cut fast, they cut super smooth.

I have all kinds of hare-brained ideas about how and why slurry works, but they're all just personal and I don7t too much evidence.

All I know is, honing on nagura slurry creates edges that I like more than any others.

BTW: Tomonagura and Honzan nagura are the same thing.

Originally Posted by JimR

I wouldn't put the actual grit of the nagura anywhere near as high as Stefan, but the real importance is how they act--not only do they cut fast, they cut super smooth.

I have all kinds of hare-brained ideas about how and why slurry works, but they're all just personal and I don7t too much evidence.

All I know is, honing on nagura slurry creates edges that I like more than any others.

BTW: Tomonagura and Honzan nagura are the same thing.

So: assuming that I'd like to experiment with nagura slurry, what's one way to try it out without the expense of a JNat? I could deal with searching for naguras; they're affordable. And then, once I decide whether it's right for me I can learn more about the finishing stones and hunt for one that's right for me, rather than jump into that decision ignorantly early on.

This thread began because I caught a hint of people trying naguras on the C12k. I don't have one. I do have a black Arkansas and a CF that are very hard, and was asking about their suitability.

How did you all begin learning about JNats? Did you jump in and purchase one, only to sell it when you discovered it wasn't one you wanted? I suppose I'm asking: which comes first, the nagura or the hone? Can the nagura come first? So far, it seems to me that a chalky 8k Botan can be used on my Charnley to bridge the gap between my BBW and my CF. Am I way off base here?

Originally Posted by MarkinLondon

How did you all begin learning about JNats? Did you jump in and purchase one, only to sell it when you discovered it wasn't one you wanted? I suppose I'm asking: which comes first, the nagura or the hone? Can the nagura come first? So far, it seems to me that a chalky 8k Botan can be used on my Charnley to bridge the gap between my BBW and my CF. Am I way off base here?

Yes that is how many of us started. There was another member here in Japan who has left the forum who did a lot to further people's j-nat education and experience by selling hones that were meant for striaght razors. He had some very nice hones. But there are some of us who just talked to people and took their word. Most of the time they were right, but some of the time they weren't. It is not always a loss if you find the hone doesn't fit into what you wanted. Many people search for hones that will do different things and I have had no trouble selling the hones that I ended up not liking or needing.

But to be perfectly honest, you don't have to spend huge amounts of money on a finisher. J-nats are often priced by weight, as a Mikawa Naguras, thus a large hone of suitable characteristics is going to cost more than a smaller or thinner one that may be an odd shape.

If you send me a PM with what your budget is I can scope around to see if there is something you might be interested in.

My finishing hone I don't use Mikawa Naguras on as it is a 'suita' (it had very small air bubbles in it when it became rock) and the different grains of the Nagura could contaminate it. But a fine and hard finishing hone without 'su' (air pockets) is all you need.

Try the nagura on you CF if you wish. I have experimented with the slurry of one natural applied to the surface of another hone. The results in my experiment were never to do it again, but your experiment may differ.

Good luck with it. Mikawa Nagura can be beautiful stones and collecting them can become addictive as they are not as costly as larger hones.

Be aware though, that finding a Koma nagura is getting more difficult due to recent Mikawa Nagura popularity. A Botan, Tenjo and a Mejiro should be sufficient though, and readily available. Unless you are lucky enough to get your hands on a Koma, I wouldn't worry to much about not having one.

Originally Posted by JimR

I have all kinds of hare-brained ideas about how and why slurry works, but they're all just personal and I don7t too much evidence.

I was wondering if you care to share the hare brained ideas at all? I'm curious.

Originally Posted by heirkb

Botan is as high as 8k you think? I've never tried a botan, but my Meijiro edges don't feel like they have come off all that fine a slurry. Also, I think Jim goes straight from bevel setting to botan. It must cut really quickly if it's in the 8k range.

I knew I should not have put any numbers indicating grit range.
Point is there is no nagura that can be used to set bevels, as far as I know.

Tomonagura and Honzan nagura are the same thing.

Jim thanks for clarifying that, someone translated them to me as two separate meanings.