Thread: Difference between US and Mexican Norton 4K

Originally Posted by English

. If you don't like these answers and think that the answers are in some way trying to build a mystique about the hones, no problem, stick with the man made stuff which is all clearly graded and documented.

Of course, even the Nortons do vary. I have 2 Norton 4Ks that are quite distinct. At some point I'm going to photograph them under the microscope to show the difference between the American and Mexican stones.

Originally Posted by Utopian

Of course, even the Nortons do vary. I have 2 Norton 4Ks that are quite distinct. At some point I'm going to photograph them under the microscope to show the difference between the American and Mexican stones.

That would be interesting.
But the difference would not depend on whether it was made in the use or mexico. The 4K sides are mad in italy and then glued to the US or mexico made 8000 or 1000 grit side.
I talked with howard and according to him, the mexican made nortons were of better quality.

I suppose the main difference could be between batches among the 4K side. After all, man made also means 'room for human error'

Both of my 4K hones are single grit hones not glued to anything. One says made in US and the other says made in Mexico. The Mexican hone is noticeably more coarse and under the scope the reason is clear. The Mexican stone is full of "pock marks." While the American stone has some of them, they are more shallow and much less numerous.

These aren't great photos but they'll give you the idea.
The first is the US Norton 4K and the second is the Mexican Norton 4K.

I guess I did get a little off topic. I blame English for it!

I got off track in an unrelated thread so I thought that I would start it again here.

There have been previous discussions about differences between older and newer Norton 4K hones. The older ones were made in the US and the newer ones made in Mexico. (NAFTA strikes again!) The basic complaints about the Mexican hones were that they were more coarse and had occasional bits of grit that caused microchipping. Generally the response to such complaints was that the hone simply needed to be lapped.
Well, after using my Mexican hone for over a year and after lapping it many times, I still occasionally encounter pieces of grit that I can feel and hear when I'm honing and it is still noticeably coarser than my older US made 4K. Whenever I encounter one of these bits, I have to stop and lap the plate again until the little miscreant pebble is knocked out.
Even without the occasional piece of grit, the hone feels more coarse than my other 4K. After looking at both under the microscope, I know why. I'm not trying to scare anyone, I might have just gotten mine from a bad batch but I think it probably does explain why some people have had problems with this hone. The first photo is the older US made 4k and the second is the newer Mexican made 4K.

WOW !!!! that really is different, as they say a picture is worth a 1000 words....
I would highly suggest that you send these pics to Norton if you can find a web address for CS..... See what they have to say ????

[quote=gssixgun;269259]WOW !!!! that really is different, as they say a picture is worth a 1000 words....
I would highly suggest that you send these pics to Norton if you can find a web address for CS..... See what they have to say ????[/quote

I concur w/ glen whole heartedly, I have been having similar issues and now I know why, thanks Utopian.

Yeah, there was a thread about this at least 6 months ago and I always meant to take these pictures but I wasn't reminded about them until today. I described this difference in the past (I think the dreaded banned Forzato had a thread about it) but it's a lot harder to argue with pictures.

That is a very noticeable difference - thanks for posting those pics Utopian.

That is a good idea to send the pictures to Norton. It really is a great all -purpose stone - I couldn't live without mine - and it would be a shame to allow them to descend into mediocrity through inaction on our behalf.

Funny thing, is it not? Vintage Thuringians are more desirable than modern ones. Same is true with Belgians to a lesser degree. Quality issues mean the older Wapis are slightly more prized than the newer batches. Could this be the beginning of the "Vintage Norton"?

James.