Thread: Chinese Hone

You would need a scanning electron microscope to achieve this. The real issues is what can the steel handle for an edge? You can, as Glen and others, pointed out, get very very sharp with 1K. Past that, it's a lot of polishing the sides and a little bit more on the very end. Keep in mind, the end (cutting edge) of the bevel has to meet just about perfectly even on both sides to get maximum sharp. That is why stroke, flip, stroke, flip, stroke, flip and so on become so important. You might get one side more "biased" than the other side for honing, and then the cutting edge would favor one side of the blade over the other. IOW, if you got good smooth cutting on the side that is opposite the usual blade decorations, as soon as you flipped the razor over, the other side would cut entirely different. Perspective: let's talk grit and microns. Did you know that an 8,000 grit (American Standard) is 3 micron? That's 3/1,000,000 of a meter or in terms that is understandable, a red blood cell in your body is around 8 microns. Most bacteria is 1 to 2 microns. a 13,000 grit particle is only around 1.5 microns in size. The smaller the micron the less "real" affect it has on the edge and more on the polish. Glen mentioned that the edge of a blade is around 0.37 to 0.47 microns to be an acceptable shave and hair cuts at 0.50 microns. I believe if it gets much tighter than that at the edge, say 0.3 to 0.2 micron the steel is simply not capable of enough strength to maintain that extra advantage before it will bend or nick at even too much heavy beard or whiskers. It all depends on the steel. The grit of hones are unimportant if the steel cannot withstand the edge.

Originally Posted by Gibbs

...the steel is simply not capable of enough strength to maintain that extra advantage before it will bend or nick at even too much heavy beard or whiskers. It all depends on the steel. The grit of hones are unimportant if the steel cannot withstand the edge.

I'm with you here...the 30k can cause micro-chipping & the edge can literally crumble. Maybe I just need to learn the stone better. From what I have found out so far, less is more.

Originally Posted by shooter74743

I'm with you here...the 30k can cause micro-chipping & the edge can literally crumble. Maybe I just need to learn the stone better. From what I have found out so far, less is more.

Just wait til they come out with stones using carbon nano tube technology that sharpen up to 100K.

I wonder what tipe of shaving will be after honing razor with 100K. Even after good honing with 12-15k hones razors are a little overhoned. And it makes shaving resemble skin pilling procedure, which ladies like very much.

Originally Posted by Zelenbakh

I wonder what tipe of shaving will be after honing razor with 100K. Even after good honing with 12-15k hones razors are a little overhoned. And it makes shaving resemble skin pilling procedure, which ladies like very much.

Firstly I doubt there are many edges out there, if any, that could take 100K. Second, I doubt it would make that much difference. As I said, the curve of sharpness v. grit becomes relatively flat after 10K. The difference between 15k and 30K is minor. 100K would be negligible.

Originally Posted by Scipio

Firstly I doubt there are many edges out there, if any, that could take 100K. Second, I doubt it would make that much difference. As I said, the curve of sharpness v. grit becomes relatively flat after 10K. The difference between 15k and 30K is minor. 100K would be negligible.

+1 After 10K, or even after 8K as far as that goes, you are mostly polishing bevels and the very tip of the edge. Once you hone on one side of the bevel, you can very possible cause a "wire" edge that wants to roll over to the opposite side. You move to the opposite side and essentially, do the same moving that edge back over on the other side. Even-ness is the key. Often I keep a square gum rubber eraser during my honing, and will lightly draw the length of the razor edge across that. You would be surprised what you can remove that way. I have felt a wire edge disconnect from the razor when honing. If you feel very carefully, you can feel something that just seems like there was a tiny object that ended up on the stone. Probably that wire edge that moved off. I rinse the hone and wipe the razor at that point the instant I feel that. Running that blade across the small wire, I feel (opinion) cause a small scratch/mark on the bevel. Might even cause a very small chip on the very edge. Just a thought.

Gosh, how to say this without sounding like a complete butthead...

Guys if you are getting wire edges, or the edge is collapsing at grits higher than 4k you are doing some fundamentally wrong things with your honing on straight razors...
You are cutting the steel behind the edge to weaken it which causes the edge to fail,, The only way I know of that this happens is by using to much pressure and flexing the blade edge...perhaps there is another way but I don't know it....

I just thought of one... Using tape to set the bevel then dropping the tape off to sharpen could help this to happen, not cause it but help it.. If you are going to tape either do it correctly or don't do it at all... You could also cause the same effect by not using tape and torquing the blade on the spine instead of the edge, but that is really pushing my theory

The 30k stone can be used too much, but not because it will destroy the edge, but because it will not improve the edge any longer, and it becomes an effort in futility.... You chase that perfection, then lose it, then chase it, then lose it, but the edge isn't degrading...Just that final tweaking that you are looking for is being built and lost...

PH, C12K whatever you call them can put a good edge on a blade, but they are slow. The ones that seem to work best have black in them like the one pictured below. I have tried and like the old Germans, the coticules (both new and old rock) and the C12K. For the price, PH is hard to beat- for consistency in stones and time spent it is hard to beat a good synthetic. But, IMO it is just more fun to finish on a natural stone. If I was doing it daily and many razors, I would probably use synthetics. But, for a hobbyists who hones for myself and just occasionally hones for others natural stones are my choice.

Mine is a lot darker gray with a darker still gray streak running down it a bit. Almost reminds me of slate for color. Nicce polish. I've never noticed anything in regards that looks like slurry on that stone. I use clean water and a very slight drop of dish soap on my finger to spread out the water. The blades seem to glide along that stone very nicely. I agree with what Glen says. If you push it too much (pressure) you can make the edge roll over,, and you really don't want to do that at 4K and above. You really want to avoid that as much as possible even at 1,000 grit.

I tape the spines and leave them on all the way through from bevel setting to finish. I only take it off to strop when done.

Originally Posted by natchez

PH, C12K whatever you call them can put a good edge on a blade, but they are slow. The ones that seem to work best have black in them like the one pictured below. I have tried and like the old Germans, the coticules (both new and old rock) and the C12K. For the price, PH is hard to beat- for consistency in stones and time spent it is hard to beat a good synthetic. But, IMO it is just more fun to finish on a natural stone. If I was doing it daily and many razors, I would probably use synthetics. But, for a hobbyists who hones for myself and just occasionally hones for others natural stones are my choice.

I agree with you. For hobbyist 12K is Ok. It's fun, plus it makes good finishing work. For professional honemeister progression of artificial stones is needed. I noticed, that some of them absolutely don't use natural stones. Even Belgians. I thing it is because with artificial stones everything is clear, every grit. And every coti or arkansas has it's character, which is not for professionals.