Thread: Make it sharper

Well if you have a razor that is sharp to shave with with some regards, but you see that it leaves a few whiskers that can be cut by another razor, where down the line do you start on the re-hone to bring up the sharpness? A razor can cut a HHT but sometimes it is not up to par on sharpness of some other razors. I have a GOTTA that is a standard to judge all others. When I want to bring up an already sharp razor to a better sharpness level, do you start back at the 1000 grit level and go up from there, or start at the 4000 or even the 8000 level?

Another thing I have noticed, and this is on a new razor I have, is that one side has more width of bevel than the other side. It could be that the razor was not perfectly ground the same on both sides. A little more grind on one side and a higher spine contact would increase the degree that the edge would meet the hone. If the other side was less thick from spine contact to centerline of the blade, then the resulting honed bevel would be a wider bevel. All things that they are, they will eventually meet at one point. I think that for some really spectacular razors, that the grind is more perfect and the edges are nearly identical on both sides for width of bevel. It means that each side would have a bevel that was equal in width to the opposite side and the very edge would be a near split in the center mass of metal of the razor's thin body.

Originally Posted by Gibbs

Well if you have a razor that is sharp to shave with with some regards, but you see that it leaves a few whiskers that can be cut by another razor, where down the line do you start on the re-hone to bring up the sharpness?

My strategy for this is to sneak up on it with just the minimum. If you deal with dulling as soon as you notice any diminishment at all in the quality of the shave, then it will take very little to bring it back. Shortly after I started on SRP, I remember Howard declaring that it is easier to keep a razor sharp than it is to sharpen a razor. I have found this to be very true. So, where down the line do you go? Go to just the previous step from the original honing routine. If you use pastes, then that would be the starting point. Strop on paste and then test shave. Often this is sufficient to restore the edge. If you don't paste, or if pasted stropping no longer restores the edge, then drop down to whatever finishing hone you prefer.

The point is that you should sequentially work your way backwards down the honing progression giving each level a chance to restore the edge as determined by shave testing. If one level does not restore it, then either repeat that level or drop down one level. If you are diligently touching up your razors as soon as you notice any diminishment, then you should not need to drop very far down the reversed honing progression.

Originally Posted by Gibbs

A razor can cut a HHT but sometimes it is not up to par on sharpness of some other razors. I have a GOTTA that is a standard to judge all others. When I want to bring up an already sharp razor to a better sharpness level, do you start back at the 1000 grit level and go up from there, or start at the 4000 or even the 8000 level?

Realize that not all razors are capable of producing equally good shaves. There is a subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) difference between them due to variations in the steels and their grinds. No matter how well you hone them, they will shave differently. Again, start at the high end of the grits and test your way down.

Originally Posted by Gibbs

Another thing I have noticed, and this is on a new razor I have, is that one side has more width of bevel than the other side. It could be that the razor was not perfectly ground the same on both sides. A little more grind on one side and a higher spine contact would increase the degree that the edge would meet the hone. If the other side was less thick from spine contact to centerline of the blade, then the resulting honed bevel would be a wider bevel. All things that they are, they will eventually meet at one point. I think that for some really spectacular razors, that the grind is more perfect and the edges are nearly identical on both sides for width of bevel. It means that each side would have a bevel that was equal in width to the opposite side and the very edge would be a near split in the center mass of metal of the razor's thin body.

This is entirely a matter of geometry. I define the bevel as the plane established by the apex of the edge and the widest region of the spine. The width of the bevel is simply the result of the amount of steel that got in the way and had to be removed in order to establish those planes. An infinitely thin blade would have an infinitely narrow bevel. As the blade widens, the bevel will widen. If one side of the blade was ground thicker from the center, then it will have a wider bevel than the other side. You described that same phenomenon. As long as the blade is properly honed, the two bevel planes will meet in a perfect "V" along the entire length of the blade. I don't think that I have ever perceived symmetrically versus asymmetrically beveled razors to shave any differently. The difficult key is to insure that SOME form of bevel is established along the full length of the blade as this is the only way to also establish the sharp "V" along the entire blade.

OK, the short answer to all of the above is that touch-ups, not repairs, should never need to drop down to the 1k or even the 4k level. If you are using a finishing hone above the 8k level, then it would be rare that you would need to drop down to the 8k level and if you do, 5 strokes or less should be sufficient.

I have to agree with Utopian. It does depend on the condition of your blade to begin with, and you do want to use the minimum. As he said, You don't want to break out the 1k unless it's really necessary. I used to do 3 swipes on a Swaty on my shave ready blades in rotation. It kept them sharp permanantly. So, If I have 9 razors out, each one got 3 swipes every 9 days, or each time I picked it up. That's all the honing I ever had to do. They never showed any signs of wear. The only reason I stopped was I missed using my other stuff. The point being, the razors never got to the point where they needed anything else. Here's the problem. When someone say's, "My razor needs honing" We never know how bad it is, or if it's the shaver, etc....too many variables, so it's hard to give advice in that regard.

I can shave with blades that are dull and get a good shave, so can many experienced str8 users. I can't tell you how many times I picked up a blade, and just said, The hell with it, I'll finish up...My point is, Some of my blades may need a 4k, or even a bevel reset at times, it just depends. Sometimes you get the blade from hell.
I have a NoS Fily 13 from Classic that just won't cooperate. I have it shaving good, but not great...

A lot of us, drop down 2, that means the last stone you used on the blade, you go down two more the next honing session. So, If I used a 12k Nani on it to bring it back, next time I'd probably use a 5k, then go up...or a 4k stone....
I also keep an Escher with a slurry stone out, by my rotation. I use it or the Swaty for quick touch ups. I know from experience, If that doesn't work, I normally have to go to a 4k, then up...That works best for me.

Uneven Bevels, I usually leave them alone, To be honest, I've never had much experience in that regard, and it most definitley takes a practiced hand to fix those. I tired once, and didn't do so good.

I think that for people new to honing it is very easy to view it as a progression necessarily starting at 1K. I started this way, wanting to make each new edge MY edge. People who are new to honing also have some difficulty judging what an edge really needs and trusting in their judgement, so back to the 1K it is. Some even resort, as I did, to breadknifing to really start all over.

It doesn't take very long until you realize how much work you've cut out for yourself. It can take hours to go from a breadknifed edge to a bevel, and it isn't really very enjoyable, especially when your right shoulder begins to ache. So, as Utopian pointed out, at some point the new honer realizes that the question is not what he needs but what does the edge need? So blade and edge evaluation become really important.

It's like it is with an automobile. If it isn't running particulary well, you could always just replace the engine wth a crate engine and be good to go. But that takes time and is expensive, so you start with some diagnostics and do what that indicates should be done, starting with the least work required. If that doesn't work, you do more. With a straight razor, you check it out, see what it needs, and start with the highest relevant grit and move downward as you have to.

And, if you re-hone it careful with the stropping or you might be back in the same boat again. Kind of like replacing an engine with a new engine when all that was wrong was the spark plugs, and you save out the spark plugs and wires off the old engine and put on the new one, and low and behold that one misses as well!!