Thread: Mustard or Mayo

Nifty--I am eager to hear what you think of the Spyderco. I bought one after seeing a series of photos Tim Zowada posted some time ago. They compared edges off of different hones, and the edge off the Spyderco was remarkably smooth. I've yet to decide its position in my own honing regimens, but suspect it falls between the fine side of my Frictionite and my Naniwa 12k. My gut says it's most useful on hard American steel and counterproductive on Sheffields... but again that feels more like conjecture than proven fact. Not enough data points yet.

In case anyone reads this far, I feel this should be mentioned- many countries use a decimal point in place of a comma. It's simply a difference in systems.

When I was in college, I had a top-end (for 1983) Hewlett-Packard calculator, an HP-15C. You could toggle it between comma and decimal for the thousands separator. My roommate also had one, and I'd drive him nuts by toggling it on his. **Snort, snort, push up taped glasses**

We ARE passionate about minutiae here.

Originally Posted by roughkype

Nifty--I am eager to hear what you think of the Spyderco.
...snip....

Once you wear in the Spyderco Ultra fine it is not as fast but is finer than the Na12k.
It is also easy to use (with or without water). If you are good at setting a bevel the
Spyderco can be a good hone.

It is fine enough and slow enough that a half spritz of 0.25micron diamond can
make a noticeable change. Loose diamond at 0.25 micron should get it to act
a lot like the finer Shapton Glass Stone grits for a lot less (Send me a set
of Shaptons and I will tell ya more ).

The Spyderco seems to be equally good on hard steel or old Sheffields. It does well
on my TI razor which is hard as stink as well as some of my hard US razors. I think it is a better
deal than most barber hones on eBay. Having picked up a dozen or so barber hones over
the last couple years most are not as good as the Spiderco (and all are smaller).
And if you have some sub micron diamond for pasting a strop you can quickly dial in
and refresh surface of the ceramic. In a rush, all you need is a spray or two and an
older razor to worry the surface and condition it in a hurry. This is not
something that needs to happen often if at all.

If I follow the 8K Snow white with the Spyderco Ultra Fine I get a very smooth
shave. Same for the Norton 8k. The SpidyUF can be considered a slow finisher
once it has settled in.

As an experiment:
I am going to use the 8K Snow white as I would a barber hone for Saturday
touchups. Dry or a double splash of clear water over it and then only five or six hone
strokes. My guess is that the Snow White will be better than almost all
my barber hones as a quick light touch up hone. As a touch up hone
I am not sure a finisher will be need... time will tell.

I could and should do the same experiment with the Spiderco UF hone.

I should comment on how "thirsty" the Snow White is. It is a very dense hone and
is not terribly thirsty. If I run it under water I get about ten slow smooth hone strokes finished before I see the
hone drain the surface dry (about the same as a Chosera 10k). That is enough time
for a quick touch up... if more honing is wanted a couple drops or a quick water spray keeps it
happy. It is not a hone to leave soaking in a bucket over night per the maker.

For those that only have a Norton 4k/8k combo the Nanawa 12K is
a great next choice. The Spiderco does not give as good a feedback
as the Na12k and is thus more difficult to use. The Spiderco
does not generate as much mess in the sink and does not need lapping
to stay flat. I played with 1micron spray on one side and 0.25 micron
spray on the flip side and found that the Spiderco would mimic the
spray. The 1 micron spray caused a lot of abrasion on the Spiderco,
enough that I do not recommend that folk spray it with diamond as a habit.
And it does not need it except to dial it in, in a hurry.

Some folk comment that the Na12k has dimensional problems
that make lapping it perfectly flat a pain. Not a problem with Snow White
(or with the Spidy).

Eow... what a ramble... I should have kept to one topic...

This thread upsets me greatly. I've had my eye on getting a snow white for a little while now. After reading this, now I know I must purchase and test it.

I'm just upset because as of late I've done so well at not spending a tonne of money.

Originally Posted by Maxi

This thread upsets me greatly. I've had my eye on getting a snow white for a little while now. After reading this, now I know I must purchase and test it.

I'm just upset because as of late I've done so well at not spending a tonne of money.

If you have a good 8K hone count to ten as you
do not "need" this rock as much as a Naniwa 12k.

It is sure purdy and feels fine when I hold it though.

It all depends on what you have now.

Originally Posted by Maxi

spending a tonne of money.

As in thousands? Oh, no, not more confusion!

Thank you some more, Nifty!

When you talk about refreshing the surface, how is that different from a light lapping? When I got my UF it was pretty far from flat and I lapped the factory ridged side to smooth. After that, I read the very odd assertion that lapping away those ridges ruined the ultra-fine grit rating. What gives there?

I only lapped one side (and there are still a couple of low spots, but it's not worth killing a DMT to smooth it completely) because the back side was really wavy.

Right now it's green with CrOx after I used it to flatten my CrOx-treated felt. Are the CrOx particles hard enough to accomplish this refreshing thing?

I suppose I'll use that CrOx coating to keep tuning the Genco I've been working on.

I agree, it's much nicer than barber hones. You can get a decent stroke on it.

Best wishes

BTW, the snow white naniwa 8k is really seriously in a whole other league of its own. I have owned this stone since about 2004 sold through hilda tool and trust me, a Norton 8k or any other 8k is nowhere near as fine as this stone. I have said this before and will say it again, grits aren't just grits. That is not all 8k are created equal. I would classify this stone as comparable to a shapton 16k and leaves an edge IMO comparable to some Jnats in terms of feel on face. Its definitely one of those curve ball stones. Bright finish too.

Originally Posted by roughkype

Thank you some more, Nifty!

When you talk about refreshing the surface, how is that different from a light lapping? When I got my UF it was pretty far from flat and I lapped the factory ridged side to smooth. After that, I read the very odd assertion that lapping away those ridges ruined the ultra-fine grit rating. What gives there?

I only lapped one side (and there are still a couple of low spots, but it's not worth killing a DMT to smooth it completely) because the back side was really wavy.

Right now it's green with CrOx after I used it to flatten my CrOx-treated felt. Are the CrOx particles hard enough to accomplish this refreshing thing?

I suppose I'll use that CrOx coating to keep tuning the Genco I've been working on.

I agree, it's much nicer than barber hones. You can get a decent stroke on it.

Best wishes

As long as the razor does not catch on the hone you are fine.
Just use your UF with a gentle hand and it will do the right things.

By refresh I mean clean. You can use a kitchen cleanser to
scrub any swarf off the surface of the hone. You can wipe the
slurry from a coarser hone on the surface and let the slurry
work both on the hone and on a razor. Then wash the UF and
final finish the razor.

You will find that the UF begins to polish and reflect light
about the time it is acting as an ultra fine hone. Same
with many barber hones and some Arkansas hones.

Since you are getting a good shave your method is just fine.