Contact him by email, besides he offeres a online store on some of his stonesQuote:
Originally Posted by jgjgjg
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Contact him by email, besides he offeres a online store on some of his stonesQuote:
Originally Posted by jgjgjg
A few Nakayama and an unknown karasu koppa just landed today.
I'll be doing some testing as soon as the lacquer dries onthem
Ausome stones Stefan Real classy ones I have a an old asagi with almost the same ring yake patern as the third one
it is my best finisher from Jnats
Ausome carasu koppa I realy like it
Ive notice that you have an eye for the real good Jnats
Thanks Rusen, I like J-Nats a lot they are never boring.Quote:
Originally Posted by RusenBG
Been playing with this Nakayama Iromono. Really liking the edges off this stone. Very smooth and forgiving. After trying edges from super hard stones and in between I think I like the edges from these softer stones. Now this stone does not self slurry so I wouldn't call it a soft stone. Also I have never felt slurry this creamy before. Feels great on the blade.
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Nakayama Kiita #38 from Alex Gilmore
Never thought that i end up buying some more expensive Jnats as i mostly invested in cheaper
possibilities. Since there was a pre-war stock of Nakayama Kiita shown i got more and more
interested in those stones....just their look was awesome and the properties shown on Alex
Vids didnt made it better concerning the decision to get one of those....
So after several weeks of looking around and trying to come to a decision i finally
hit the button and got one of those.
So here are some pics of that really beautiful looking stone, i also added a Video
showing the abrasive properties of that specific stone. Its fantastic how fast this
stone works with a DMT slurry. Only a few laps are needed to start the slurry darkening.
A very consistent, fast and extreme fine stone. So finally a dream came true to own
one of those stones...
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8061/2...323c93_c_d.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8107/2...43e788_c_d.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ5a216l7Fc
Today I took out a few of my finishers to mess around with and took a group photo.
Top left to right: Wakasa, Nakayama Maruka Kan
Bottom left to right: Ozuko Asagi, Nakayama Maruichi Mizu Asagi, Ozuko Mizu Asagi, Nakayama Maruka Mizu Asagi, Nakayama Maruka Mizu Asagi, Nakayama Mizu Asagi.
Sort of an "Asagi" kinda' guy Stefan? That is a way good looking Kan you got there. I hope it works as well as is looks.
I will never skip on a good hard kiita if I can find one.Quote:
Originally Posted by dta116
All of the stones in the pic are ultra fine finishers and the kan is the hardest and may be the finest of all. I should add that the Wakasa in the pic is a tad softer than the kan, it is supreme finisher that is very gentle on the edge.
The two Nakayama Maruka in the bottom row and the Kan Maruka are the most impressive stones I have seen so far, they have no lines whatsoever.
I couldn't pick just one, so I bought #29 and #35. Those kiita alex had (a few left ) are amazing quality. The story was interesting too. Some guy in japan's great grandfather bought a huge stash of kiita, then stashed them under the house for almost 100 years!
Has anyone else seen the multiple "maruka" stones on ebay? They don't appear to be the same quality, and the stamps look fishy to me. I have several genuine maruka stones, and my stamps don't look like any of the ones I see on ebay. Here is the stamp I think is fake. Just wanted to see if anyone could confirm my theory and help newbies from paying a lot of money for a fake.
Attachment 245531
Unless something changed with the miner's association, the stamp looks too... computer generated, not made by hand. The old ones have imperfections on the letters, the ink is not uniform, with darker places here and there. The corners are rounded and the letters are a lot thicker! If someone with more experience says it's a genuine, his opinion is worth more. But as I see it, it's clearly fake.Quote:
Originally Posted by prodigy
Attachment 245533
I'd say for 'modern' for the same reasons Vasilis mentions.
Hatanaka-San bought out the business interests of Kato-San including the rights to the stamps, etc. I do not know if the Hatanaka company ever used the maruka stamp on stones as Kato-San did, but they did at least seem to use it in printed leaflets included with Hatahoshi-stamped stones.
My vote is it is a fake.
Cheers, Steve
Yea I had my thoughts. The same seller had been confronted by me and garrett (jnats). He was selling unmarked stones as maruka. I guess he got tired of people calling him out, so he had a stamp made. Thanks for the info gents. Steve, is that your stone in that pic?
Yes, it's mine.
Cheers, Steve
BTW, I have bought both razors and a few stones from this seller and can say that I've been happy with all the razors and most of the few stones considering the price (low). One stone in particular is very, very good but it was not cheap.
He generally sells thin used stones and a selection of used razors whose condition ranges from poor to excellent. I bought a Tanifuji from him for $50 or so that is in almost new condition except for a spot or two of pitting up next to the spine. Fantastic razor.
I have not bought from him in some time, and I notice that he is now much higher on many things in his listings.
Cheers, Steve
I concur with all those comments. He has some good stuff, and I've had some good stones and razors come from him. Now that he is pricing higher and not accepting reasonable offers, and marking stones, I won't be buying from him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve56
Under those circumstances I'll take a pass too.Quote:
Originally Posted by prodigy
Cheers, Steve
Selling counterfeit products on ebay is against its policies, and with a few reports the seller will have to either change his attitude or be banned.
Even without copyright, a stone stamped to imitate an original is a fake, and the above rule applies. Kind of similar to selling watches with the brand Rolex that aren't.
On a search on ebay I couldn't find the above stone. Does anyone mind PMing me his account? I really really don't want a new wave like the one with the yellow lake stones where in the end you didn't know which is the real one and which is the purple slate tile, only, a few hundreds of $$ more expensive.
The listing seems to have been pulled or the stone sold in the past hour or so. I'll PM you a listing by the same seller with a similar stamp. Right now, I see two stones up with the stamp. You can search eBay for "Maruka whetstone' and they'll be in the page or so of listings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasilis
Cheers, Steve
I do have a bit of an problem singling him out over a false stamp which appears on many venues throughout Japan though I'll admit it is not ethical in the West. A Canadian friend of mine told me that in Japan, 'stamps are for Westerners'.
Alex has said many times that old stamps on new stock stones are suspect. Many sellers sell modern 'Maruichi' stones though Maruichi was a whetstone company long out of business and known for fitted wooden bases. IIRC Alex said they never stamped stones with their own 'brand'. So are we going to go after sellers well known on this forum for selling new stock stones with a stamp that maybe never even existed? I believe Alex also said the mine stamps were not copyrighted anymore and anyone can use them. Maybe he can weigh in on the issue.
It's also important to understand what a maruka stamp means. As I understand it, Kato-San who was a miner, put this stamp on stones he considered to be a better quality as far as physical defects go. Kato-San, being a miner, had absolutely no idea what the stone would be used for, knives, planes, kiridashi, razors, etc. So having a genuine maruka stamp does not mean the stone is suitable for razors. It might be a great knife or tool stone.
Cheers, Steve
After seeing the seller and what he sells, indeed, it would be a pity if he was banned, but the practice of stamping his random stones must stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve56
In Japan stamps don't mean a lot, if anything, because if you want one, you visit a shop, test and buy what you need.
For us though, stamps make a huge difference. A year ago I bought a stone from Ouchi quarry or something, a kiita. Perfectly shaped, no broken corners, full of red dots, the radiolaria kind, a beauty, if it was a nakayama it would fetch 5k$. Bought it for 270?$ or somewhere around there. It was absolutely awful, almost no cutting power although not hard, you couldn't shave with it, and it was useless as a prefinisher as well because of the lack of cutting power...
We don't have the luxury to visit a Japanese hone's shop here. That's why that insurance is important.
I would agree with you 100% except that we in the west are most likely attributing characteristics to stones based on the stamps that even the original, genuine companies never intended. Of course, that's our fault, not theirs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasilis
I've bought stamped stones 'blind' a few times and as a class of stones, they're no better than the unstamped ones. This statement would NOT be true of stones from Western dealers that actually test the stamped stone and describe it for us. The Japanese had lots of stamps and some of them look suspiciously like the maruka stamp though they are not.
But yes, he should not stamp the better stones he has with a false stamp to increase profits from people who do not know better.
Cheers, Steve
This has been a very nice and enlightening read. Thanks to all the contributors.
It seems when picking a J-Nat one has to be careful with the scam artists.
I wouldn't necessarily call them scam artists, the same thing happens here all the time. Maybe 'creative marketing' is a better term, but as always, let the buyer beware. And if it's a stamped stone too good to be true, it probably is.Quote:
Originally Posted by hrfdez
Cheers, Steve
Thanks for all the info! I've talked stamps with garret a lot, and stone dealers don't give a crap about them. If it's a good stone, it's a good stone. I also think the value of a maruka has been filled with false ideas of what they actually are. My only intentions for bringing up the issue was to prevent a newbie from making a bad decision, and it looks like at least one person found it helpful so far.
I found it very helpful and informative. My thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by prodigy
Genuine Maruka stamps look different, They are not in black ink rather purple or blue is the right color. I know that really old ones look brown.Quote:
Originally Posted by prodigy
That stamp is not genuine as far as I am concerned.
I just snapped some pics of mine. The kiita and the really thick one have very clear stamps. The third with the base has the remnants of ink, not sure though because it's only a little piece of a corner of the stamp that remains. Ironically, the stone in question was from the mentioned seller, but it was cheap, and it's very nice.
Attachment 245579
Attachment 245580
This seller was selling in the begining only old stones from people He buy and old stones and sell them . I have 13 or 14 stones from it and some naguras .
He was selling mainly a old class stones used , thinned or chiped He had some very good stones Few people that i told abbout him , buy some good stones from it I bought incredible stones ,that were thinned, on incredible prise. Normaly i cannot never affort them in normal circumstancess . I bought a Kokusaibunka razor from it a brand new for 11 $ He was selling a lot of good razors back then on a lower prises .
BUT after a while he began to buy and sell stones from a controvercial japanese miner- seller /mate with a 330 listings on Ebay /
I also see much softer koppas that suspiciously look collected from the pilles
Those are only my thinkings so i may be whrong But i see less and less of those hard old stones from the old time .
A nice suita just showed up and a Nakayma koppa.
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Those are beauties Stefan!
Cheers, Steve
Thanks SteveQuote:
Originally Posted by Steve56
Suita stones are the ones that are white with brownish swirls? I see them all the time, but I always thought they were mainly good for kitchen knives. Are there razor quality suita?
They can be all kinds of colors I'll snap a quick pic of all that I have right now. They are great to use after 1k to bridge right to the finisher. Much faster than nagura progression.Quote:
Originally Posted by prodigy
Lately I've only been using one synthetic stone. My kiita stones from alex cut so fast that in a matter of seconds all 1k stria are completely gone. They are also fine enough to stop there, but I usually go to one of my top finishers after the kiita. I've never seen that much improvement of my edges doing a full nagura progression, versus just using a mejiro or koma or tomo. It all looks the same when visually inspecting the edge regardless of which nagura I use. I imagine the feel would be different if I tried shaving after each one.
Fantastic Stefan! Enjoy.Quote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
That works well with softer steels, with very hard steels like most Japanese razors it will be faster to get a suita between the 1k and the finisher. Of course synthetics solve the issue with wear resistance easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by prodigy
Here three of my suita, that see frequent use in my progression.Quote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
The left, pure one looks great. By the way, I'm avoiding stones with these red/brown lines, although everyone says they are safe. Are they cracks, or maybe inclusions of softer material? Sorry if I'm getting off topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
