Thread: Japanese naturals - Finishing question

Originally Posted by PA23-250

I think cracking has to do w/ drying out in the sun or letting water in the stone freeze, & soaking is supposed to lead to dissolving in the softer stones. The stones Max has soaked IIRC have been the super hard ones. Those are dense enough to take it.

Another reason for going easy on the water has to do w/ honing itself--some stones do not give their best results when you use too much--mine wipes away the edge if I use too much water or slurry. It chatters & skips & the edge is back to sub-4k territory in a hurry whereas very little water/slurry makes Shavette-killer edges!

Yes, Exactly what I'm talking about. If I use too much water, the razor skips or chatters along, less is more when it comes to J nats. I remember talking to "Old School" about this some time ago. He was a member/moderator here, and J nat vendor.

As far as the cracking goes, I heard the Japanese leave their stones outside to dry. The shellac prevents them from cracking, IIRC...

Originally Posted by Brighty83

Thanks Oz,

I have heard its not good for synthetics so I wont use it on my synthetics ( unless it a barbers hone ). It does make sense that synthetic hones could be damaged by soaps as they are held together by resins and\or glues etc, natural stone are held together by stone itself thus should be less of a risk with corrosive agents.

Just fyi, I found my old style waterstones i.e. Kings, suffer no damage from the soda but the newer ceramics are a different story.


It sounds like they were trying to achieve the same results if they used to use sodium carbonate, I would have thought i basic lather soap would be less corrosive then sodium carbonate, since sodium carbonate is a salt.

I dunno, soap is made with caustic soda why would that be less corrosive ?

Isn't the whole "dont get your jnats too wet" to do with the stone cracking not dissolving? I though it was to do with the natural lines through the stone and expansion with the water causing it to crack, i know max has soaked jnats with no issue but i'm guessing they don't have any line or faults in the stone.

It's about both. I bought my Asagi & Suita at the same time about 3 years ago. Always left them wet. The Asagi being so dense no dramas. The Suita being more porous started to get soft & could be scratched by my fingernail. Took some serious lapping to get it back to a healthy surface. You may argue it was just that stone but the potential is there.

Don't forget to update us on the state of your stone in 3 years time

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Don't forget to update us on the state of your stone in 3 years time

lol if i remember, i will try in a few months

Speaking of which, I just honed an Erik Anton Berg that wanted to skip no matter how little water was on there--I think it was the slurry (3 light rubs w/ the stone--almost nothing) that did it. Some finicky razors might even need just water (the stone is fast enough, even off the Norton).

Been a while so hough it might be good to update this thread

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Don't forget to update us on the state of your stone in 3 years time

Well, its been 2 years now and my Jnat is still holding up

I have still been testing the odd razor on it using lather for a while now and it still gives very nice finish

Looking at the original picture it looks like the stone has actually darkened slightly, but still no negative effects that i can see\feel when using the stone!

Originally Posted by Brighty83

Been a while so hough it might be good to update this thread



Well, its been 2 years now and my Jnat is still holding up

I have still been testing the odd razor on it using lather for a while now and it still gives very nice finish

Looking at the original picture it looks like the stone has actually darkened slightly, but still no negative effects that i can see\feel when using the stone!

Good news but all that tells you is that particular stone has survived 2 years when using a soapy lather.
You can't extrapolate that it is safe for all stones or even for longer periods of time. If all naturals are different results may be different also.
Chemistry.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Good news but all that tells you is that particular stone has survived 2 years when using a soapy lather.
You can't extrapolate that it is safe for all stones or even for longer periods of time. If all naturals are different results may be different also.
Chemistry.

Defiantly not all stones, but the evidence would suggest it's less likely to damage a Jnat then what the theories were 2 years ago

But what I can say for sure is, there has been no negative effect on 'this' stone, the stone hasn't broken down, soften etc and for this stone, I can't see any evidence as to why this would be any different in another 2 years or more.

Originally Posted by Brighty83

But what I can say for sure is, there has been no negative effect on 'this' stone, the stone hasn't broken down, soften etc and for this stone, I can't see any evidence as to why this would be any different in another 2 years or more.

You never know with stones what's under the next layer. Su, toxic inclusions , soft patches. I just don't like to add unknowns to the equation.
Speaking of odd things. Come across any Jnats that cause the slurry to rust & turn brown as you hone ? Chemistry again.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

You never know with stones what's under the next layer. Su, toxic inclusions , soft patches. I just don't like to add unknowns to the equation.
Speaking of odd things. Come across any Jnats that cause the slurry to rust & turn brown as you hone ? Chemistry again.

Yes, I have. Do you have any indications as to what is in the stone "chemistry wise" that would turn the slurry orange while honing steel, and why it will etch the blade at the same time?

Alx

Originally Posted by alx

Yes, I have. Do you have any indications as to what is in the stone "chemistry wise" that would turn the slurry orange while honing steel, and why it will etch the blade at the same time?

Alx

No idea except that things oxidise quickly on certain stones. I haven't seen it etch a blade yet but that's most likely because the razor isn't on the stone that long cf to maybe grinding on a knife or katana.