Thread: Naniwa 12k vs Sigma 13k

Actually the reason I had opened this tread is because I was thinking about relacing my nani12 with a better synthetic, and thought it could be better. If someone says its even slightly better than nani 12k I will replace it with sigma.

I'm not too fond of nani 12 actually, I want a smoother stone at this sharpness degrees and I'm presuming it either possible with charnley forests or jnats. As charnleys are hard to find an d very expensive, I'm thinking a good jnat. I'm a luthier and we use different kinds of tools and stones, but ask any luthier on the world he/she would always thend to lean towards japanese products. So before having a jnat, I though sigma could be a better option than nani or even after nani when you think the abrasive size differences between them.

So I need some real shave comments between these two guys. Absolutely no difference; I'm ok with it, but slighthest difference will make you an enabler for me

Originally Posted by Ozgun

Hey Lynn, shaves are similar too? No need to buy if someone has already nani 12 or shapton 16, what do you think? If so I better buying a shoubudani asagi in future.

I really do think the from a shaving perspective, the Sigma is very close to the Naniwa 12K and Shapton Glass 16K. I believe all three are excellent finishers. I like the feel of the Naniwa a lot, but I enjoy the results of the other two just as much. The Sigma is still a soft stone to me, while the Shapton definitely feels like a ceramic. The biggest problem that I see people have with the Naniwas, is that they soak them too much. They just need a few spritzes to quit drinking water on the higher grit stones and they are good to go. The Sigma and Shapton are ready to go with the first spritz. Which of these three to own or use will really boil down to personal preference. I fixed that for me by using all three. I have a few Asagi's too, but I normally don't use them after these stones. For me, it's more than an either or. I will use the Asagi after sometimes though if I am just tinkering with an edge.

Have fun

Here's what, I want an edge as smooth and buttery as a coticule edge but, as sharp as a 60's gillette stainless steel de blade(if you dont know similar to feather sharpness). Just cromox after synthetics won't work. What do I need exactly? Very sharp but also very smooth and gliding? :/

Originally Posted by Ozgun

Here's what, I want an edge as smooth and buttery as a coticule edge but, as sharp as a 60's gillette stainless steel de blade(if you dont know similar to feather sharpness). Just cromox after synthetics won't work. What do I need exactly? Very sharp but also very smooth and gliding? :/

Sounds like you need a Jnat... My Ozuku Asagi Lv5+ gives me just that.

Originally Posted by Ozgun

Cmon, you should know that grit is not everything. Binder, abresive types, hardness are other important things too. Two different branded 12k synthetic can be very different. Anyway, I have read some comments that sigma 13k puts nani 12 to a shame. I find nani 12k so so, looking for a better mirror polisher. Charnley forests are expensive than gold and I dont think shapton is a sensible option but will definetely go for some jnats in future. But for the time I really need some review about sigma. That stone looks promising.

Goodness, you certainly seem to know what's going on. Tell me, why is Shapton less sensible than buying a Sigma, with no reviews to speak of?

Originally Posted by Ozgun

Here's what, I want an edge as smooth and buttery as a coticule edge but, as sharp as a 60's gillette stainless steel de blade(if you dont know similar to feather sharpness). Just cromox after synthetics won't work. What do I need exactly? Very sharp but also very smooth and gliding? :/

Do you have razors that will take that kind of edge & hold it ? Feather DE edges don't last long, neither do straights with average steel especially with the sharpness you're after. ?
I wouldn't underestimate a 12k even a Shapton . I use one & have no complaints only praise. I'm unsure about you're meaning of it not being a sensible choice.
You should be getting 98-99% of what you're after on a 12k. If not, following with a fast cutting Jnat can help you to get there but then you are not truly "finishing". The less I can do on my Asagi finisher the more I know I have squeezed the optimum out of all previous synthetic stages.

Originally Posted by JimR

Goodness, you certainly seem to know what's going on. Tell me, why is Shapton less sensible than buying a Sigma, with no reviews to speak of?

Because I have nani 12, and in abrasive sizes its kinda like a 20k shapton. So no need to have 16 shapton. Then the 30k stone is very expensive but in nearly every review its commented as a harsh and not comfortable stone to shave. With that kind of money I could buy a charnley forest or maybe even an escher or a jnat which I read very nice reviews about them. Because of this I think shaptons are not much sensible in my situation.

I think I have. I have some vintage fram and dorko razors which have very hard and durable steels. Lil bit on the aggressive side.

So I think I can shave with them a few shaves with that kind of edge. Rather than waiting for the edge to become quite dull and have some serious rehone work, I prefer to shave a few times and refresh that nice edge with little work on finisher stones. Because I like using my razors on their full potential. I cannot stand a razor getting duller and duller with time. I want that first fresh edge right after honing, thus I refresh my razors edge quite often. A few strokes on 12k, some cromox on balsa, good stropping and done. Doesnt take 5 min. I do not like using pasted strops much. Though I could give diamond sprays a chance.

I wish there were lots of traditional wetshave or straight razor lovers here in Turkey like you have there, so we could meet witch each other and test our stones, razors, see the differences much better and learn new things. Learning from forums is good but limited. I'm one of the very few persons which is in to traditional wetshaving this much. I have a shaving blog(there are only 3 in total), and we have just opened our turkish shaving forum last month. Still its a start.

With my profession I was always into sharpening so much, even my masters thesis was about the effects of different sharpening stones and sharpening angle's on the different steels, tools and different woods that used in violin making.

For the traditional wetshaving,here we will be the pioneers I think, saving some percentage of humanity from cartridge sh.. Its so bad I have to use them for 6 months in my military service starting december. (

I will open a new tread tonight for asking opinions about some stones like cf, jnat types, escher etc.

Originally Posted by Lynn

I really do think the from a shaving perspective, the Sigma is very close to the Naniwa 12K and Shapton Glass 16K. I believe all three are excellent finishers. I like the feel of the Naniwa a lot, but I enjoy the results of the other two just as much. The Sigma is still a soft stone to me, while the Shapton definitely feels like a ceramic. The biggest problem that I see people have with the Naniwas, is that they soak them too much. They just need a few spritzes to quit drinking water on the higher grit stones and they are good to go. The Sigma and Shapton are ready to go with the first spritz. Which of these three to own or use will really boil down to personal preference. I fixed that for me by using all three. I have a few Asagi's too, but I normally don't use them after these stones. For me, it's more than an either or. I will use the Asagi after sometimes though if I am just tinkering with an edge.

Have fun

I use mine just like you described. But in difference sometimes, at the last steps I use them dry, and with 8 and 12k I use a few spine leading strokes for "hone stropping" effect. Works well with some razor. Nowadays I'm trying second micro edges with this method and getting better results again with some of the razors. Every razors have different characters like people. You need to know how to approach them which comes with patience and experience.

Originally Posted by Ozgun

Hey Lynn, shaves are similar too? No need to buy if someone has already nani 12 or shapton 16, what do you think? If so I better buying a shoubudani asagi in future.

For the purpose of just honing, you only need 1 high grit finisher. It doesn't matter which, and realistically, everything higher than 8K is just the cherry on the cake. If, otoh, you like playing with high grit stones for the fun of it, then it makes sense to try everything under the sun.

If you already have one of the stones you mention, there is no need to buy anything else.