Thread: peoples hone of indeterminate grit(phig) I don't like this name.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

In favor of PHIG

I know it started as a joke when Utopian went on a rant, and Holli4prirating came up with it -BUT- PHIG also has become after quite a few people have tested them for straight razor use, a very good descriptor for these stones...

We can't get more exact because we don't have the info to do so, we know that there are several different types out there, some that are flat terrible finishers, some that are good, and some that are flat unbelievably smooth finishers... The slurry is different on many of them, the clear water scratch pattern is different, and the grit levels are different...

So with all those differences that we have found, I kinda have grown quite attached to the PHIG moniker as it lets new guys know right off the get go that these like other Natural stones are different ie: People's Hone of Indetermite Grit tells them that just because they are not getting good results while honing, it might not be just them, it actually could be the stone It also explains why some of us love them, and some hate them..

So yep I think I for one am sticking with the PHIG name at least until a grading process comes into effect.. Who knows someone might take these and start giving them fancy vein names and the price will skyrocket

The $475 "Silken Dragon Vein" Chinese slate hone could be the next big deal


ps: Yes that was sort of a joke

pps: I also didn't just pull this outta my hat here is another couple of threads about these hones

http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...nese-hone.html

Well actually we CAN get more exact.

-We know the stone comes from Guangxi.

-I have read for this stone lowest grit was 6k and the highest 20k. That is all polishing in my book.
We can call that prepolishing perhaps for the lower grit. Question is whether one should
include that fact in the name. Japanese stones are called by name of mine, strata and
characteristics.

-The stones are usually blue(asagi lol!, ''lan se'' in chinese), grayish with a very attractive(IMO) vein.
''Dragon vein'' somebody wrote. I translated ''Dragon vein'' to chinese with Google trans-
late and then listened to what it sounded like. ''Long mai''.

Hmm what combination might sound good? Guanxgi Long mai?

Sharpman

Originally Posted by shooter74743

Ahhhh, yes...been waiting on that one. Some expensive stones provide better edges some don't. They are naturals, you cannot ever forget about that variable.

The key is that usually once someone is up to the skill level to justify purchasing a more expensive stone, the "whatever stone" falls into the shadows of the more expensive stones like a quality JNAT, Escher, Thuringian, Charnley Forrest, Special Stone, and so on. They are more expensive because they ARE better for the most part.

"Whatever Stones" are great for what beginners are looking for: a natural finisher. As long as they understand that they are about to purchase & have read up on how to properly use a "whatever stone", then they feel that they have the best stone available...until their skills grow and pocket book has rebounded. Some are content with their stone and never move on...great for them. That's the best part of this sport...as long as it works for you, who cares what someone else thinks.

As you said, they are naturals and vary wildly. And a good PHIG/C-Nat-C12K-Whatever stone can actually hang with Eschers/Turis/CF/Whatever_Expensive stone!

You may have to go through a few of them, even a lot, but they do exist. (IMO)

Well, the expensive hones where not supposed to be expensive. And 50 years ago, all the WOA escher Llyn Idwals etc where sold cheaper than the equivalent price of the Chinese hone. Especially the Charnley forest. From what I know no one liked it because it is so slow. and now people pay 200$ for a piece of a stone which someone very smart had this brilliant idea to cut the stone in half.

Originally Posted by SharpMan

Well actually we CAN get more exact.

-We know the stone comes from Guangxi.

-I have read for this stone lowest grit was 6k and the highest 20k. That is all polishing in my book.
We can call that prepolishing perhaps for the lower grit. Question is whether one should
include that fact in the name. Japanese stones are called by name of mine, strata and
characteristics.

-The stones are usually blue(asagi lol!, ''lan se'' in chinese), grayish with a very attractive(IMO) vein.
''Dragon vein'' somebody wrote. I translated ''Dragon vein'' to chinese with Google trans-
late and then listened to what it sounded like. ''Long mai''.

Hmm what combination might sound good? Guanxgi Long mai?

Sharpman

You are beginning to remind me of the "Splash" guy, he was one of those types of people that insisted that the term "Splash" was wrong when referring to an Aftershave, and that no one should use it... He went so far as to post that on near every thread that someone used the term "Splash"...
Huh??? I wonder what ever happened to him ????

Like it has been posted quite a few times already, you can call it whatever you want, and so can the rest of us...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

You are beginning to remind me of the "Splash" guy, he was one of those types of people that insisted that the term "Splash" was wrong when referring to an Aftershave, and that no one should use it... He went so far as to post that on near every thread that someone used the term "Splash"...
Huh??? I wonder what ever happened to him ????

Like it has been posted quite a few times already, you can call it
whatever you want, and so can the rest of us...

I had been thinking for quite some time about a (more)correct name for
the guangxi stone and made a topic about it yesterday. I haven't
commented on this subject in any other topic. I am responding
to a topic I opened, so your comparison makes no sense.

You can call the stone whatever pleases you. You claimed we couldn't
get more exact which was incorrect.

As for what happened to your friend, I don't know.

Sharpman

Originally Posted by SharpMan

Well actually we CAN get more exact.

-We know the stone comes from Guangxi. Peoples Republic of China

-I have read for this stone lowest grit was 6k and the highest 20k. That is all polishing in my book.
We can call that prepolishing perhaps for the lower grit. Hmm what combination might sound good??

Sharpman

Hmmm yep we can get more exact

People's Republic of China

Guangxi Province, Slate Hone, of anywhere from 6k to 20k (your numbers not mine)

Hmmmm Sounds to me like the term PHIG pretty much covers that dead on

Next????

You do realize that I am just messing with ya now right ???? call the rock whatever you want doesn't much matter just so long as we know what stone it is...

please take this as a joke I am having a bit of fun and I hope you are too

I think the biggest problem regarding the name of this stone is the mystery that surrounds it. Who owns the quarry, how many are there, what variations of the stone exist, how big the mine is etc. If we knew more about the stone it would be easier to name it. I don't really like this phig name, because for someone who knows this Chinese hone, a grey-blue stone for fine honing, and most of the sellers advertise it as a 10-12-15k stone, the letters PHIG will not give him the slightest idea that you are referring to this stone. He can of course search the wiki for acronyms and abbreviations, but he might not have enough experience with the site. Now, I don't think we are a community that is trying keep the secrets of honing and razors hidden from the rest of the world, unless they register. That's why I think we should find a more suited name for the stone.

Does anyone else think it's funny when people use all these acronyms for things with names that, if you think about it, are pretty darn short anyway. I mean, I understand the desire to abbreviate something like deoxyribonucleic acid, but coticule? Naniwa? It's a keyboard, not Japanese calligraphy. Extra letters don't cost too much.

It also rather ironically defeats the purpose of using the shorter term when, invariably, the "new guy" jumps in an says something along the lines of "Hey, wut's a C12k?"

Now you have three options!
(1) ignore him (what a dope!)
(2) spell it out for him (which you don't want to do because you saved so much time using the acronym in the first place); or
(3) grudgingly accept that you are going to need to invest some time in a response--But now you're mad that you decided to invest the time, so you want to stick it to the new guy. Cite the wiki! Burn noob!

If Bruce Lee were alive today; he would make a movie on this subject:
"Enter The Silken Dragon Vein"
&
"Fists of PHIG"

Sometimes blind fools get lucky and the first one they buy is a really good one!!! Apparently I did, as mine works as advertised! LOL.

I was happy with the c12k monicker, but PHIG seemed to be universally recognized, so I use which ever seems appropriate for the conversation.

As has been said, no dis-respect was meant, it's just easy. Why change it? It will always just be a C-Nat, or a C12k or a PHIG, which ever you call it, I know what you are talking about. I guess if your offended by PHIG, or think it is an injustice, just call it a C12k knowing the one you have might not really be that, but again, who cares as long as it suits your needs. If not, I guess PHIG would be correct, right? LOL. After all, they are advertised as C12k's, why not stick to that. We didn't make it up, did we?

M