Thread: Honing questions.

I started honing with a Norton 4/8 and a DMT 325. I quickly added a C12k, two combo coticules and a set of the Welsh slate stones currently being sold on eBay. I've tried with several different razors to do a one-stone hone on both cotis with limited success. The edges cut whiskers and they don't leave any razor burn, but they aren't as sharp as I like. Whether the fault lies with me or the stones.... I just don't know. However, the Norton 4/8 is an easy stone to learn how to use and it's an easy step from the 8k to whatever finisher you like. The edges I get using the Nortons far exceed those from the cotis, and I think I would have been quite frustrated if I had started with just a combo coticule.

Now with all that out of the way, let me ask you this... Have you ever shaved with a coticule edge? If you haven't, then it might be a good idea to have someone proficient with coticules hone a razor for you so you can see if it's an edge you enjoy before dropping the cash on one.

Originally Posted by Kees

@ Gssixgun: thanks for your extensive advice here. Did you have any particular reason for not mentioning cubic boron nitride? I like it very much for daily use. Since I started using it my hones have seen much less use. A good thing unless you have a honing addiction disorder.

Because unlike many on this forum, I NEVER EVER recommend or Not recommend anything that I haven't tried myself....

Point in reference on this thread already

Pithor: "The scratch patter comment just goes to show that I have never used synthetics. I worked on assumption, which is of course not the best way to discuss things"


I will however take a look for some on this side of the pond and see what I can find Kees unless Lynn finds it first then I'll borrow some from him ...

Originally Posted by sweeneychris

Hi guys I am looking to start doing my own honing, I have been sending my razors away but came to the conclusion that I should really start doing my own.
The only problem is I have a few questions if you could help:-
1,what grits should I have? Is there a few "must have's"
2, is the norton stones the best out there and nothing else will do or is it personal preference? I have seen some welsh and Japanese stones for good prices.
3, would you recommend getting some razors to practice on rather my best ones?

Thanks guys

I'll give you my opinions, for what they're worth.
1. Sorta. Ideally you want something rough enough to set bevels, something in the middle to sharpen, and something fine enough to make a razor feel comfortable on your face. That doesn't necessarily mean three different devices, three different media, or whatever. These three tasks can be accomplished with one, two, three, six, or a dozen or more different devices. You can find plenty of information--on this site alone--on just about every one of them. Opinions vary, so take in all you can and make an informed decision that you're the most likely to be happy with.

2. The Nortons are a fine setup. The 4k/8k combo stone is what I started with and it does two of the jobs above quite well. In my opinion the 4k is a little slow for bevel setting, but certainly capable given some patience. Norton offers a 1k which can do that work faster. Keep in mind that you'll need to lap them quite frequently so it's not just the norton stones themselves you'll need. If you're interested, there's about a million videos of Nortons being used to sharpen razors. Watch what those guys do and what they use. Indeed, other setups will work, too (see #1). For example, I prefer naturally-occurring stones now to my Nortons. It really is personal preference. Some guys like Fords some guys like Chevys. Both get you from A to B (most of the time, anyway) it's just a matter of which you prefer and how much money you'd feel comfortable spending. Ebay can be your friend, embrace it!

3. Yes. I don't think you need a plethora of practice razors, though. Get one one ebay, or an antique store, or flea market, that looks decent and is somewhat similar to the majority of the razors you have now. For example, if you have wedges, get a wedge to practice on. If you have hollower razors, get a hollow one. I think you ought to be able to get one for less than 20 bucks that you can run through the ringer. Try to avoid getting attached to it because you might punish it a little while you learn.

I would say look at the reasons people recommend a given hone or hone setup. If you agree with a line of reasoning, then that's a good start. I'll give you some general things to look for: Synthetics are often recommended because they are said to be more predictable and foolproof. There's a lot of different synthetics, and plenty of information on each. Naturals are often recommended because of harder-to-define reasons. For example, they give you a direct link to your ancestors, they come from the earth, they have a particular "feel" and smell that can be lacking in synthetics, they look cool, etc. I also believe them to be lower maintenance (which I like) but that, too, is a personal preference. There's a lot of different naturals, and varying degrees of information on each.

In my opinion, you are tasked with surveying the field of information, and finding a line of reasoning you agree with. Once that's done, all you'll need is your credit card.

@ Lynn:

This is what I got: JENDE: Ken Schwartz CBN Sprays

I use the 0.125 (0-0.25) CBN spray

I have been using CBN daily for about a year, used it on approx. 15 razors. I pasted a couple of paddle strops with the stuff. Works on leather and balsa. After each shave I give the razor 20 round trips on it, helps drying and cleaning the edge. Before every shave another 40 round trips. If you feel that is overdoing it please let me know. Works very well for me. Before I started using it I would give all my razors 60 round trips on the linen followed by 60 on leather. After about 3-5 shaves I started to feel the edge lose some of its keenness. Since using CBN my razors always feel like fresh from the hones. I have only used chromox in the past. IMHO this stuff is miles better than chromox. I never used diamond sprays as they are said on this forum to produce harsh edges. CBN is said to have a Mohs hardness of about 10 which is similar to diamond: Boron nitride - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I hope this answers your questions.

Originally Posted by Kees

I never used diamond sprays as they are said on this forum to produce harsh edges.

People say a lot of things. You should try it. I find it produces very smooth edges.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Because unlike many on this forum, I NEVER EVER recommend or Not recommend anything that I haven't tried myself....

Point in reference on this thread already

Pithor: "The scratch patter comment just goes to show that I have never used synthetics. I worked on assumption, which is of course not the best way to discuss things"

My point was not to recommend anything over the other, even though I nudge towards coticules, because it was how I started and I never really needed anything else since they are so versatile. This was not to talk down sythetics (or diamond sprays and such as well), I just wanted to give a different angle and add something new to the discussion. I thought I made that clear, but obviously not clear enough.

Nowhere in this thread have I recommended or not recommended something I have not tried. The comment you quoted was just to admit that I didn't argue well enough, i.e. making a mistake and admitting it. I should have left that out of my initial post. I was consistently clear and honest about it that I did not use synthetics; that was pretty much my entire point. The only thing I recommended was the way I did it, to illustrate the different ways you can start rather than trying to persuade Chris that that was the right way.

I'm sorry, but my quote is NOT a point in reference for advising for or against certain types of hones without having used them, I mentioned multiple times that I do not advise people to not get synthetic hones. It almost feels as if you try to discredit me and my argument by picking that quote as an example of something it was never an example of to contrast it with yourself and your advise.

And also honing the way I do, I don't see the point in getting a complete synthetic progression, Japanese natural with nagura progression, diamond sprays or anything like that. My honing needs are fulfilled. And I don't see why I should, as there are plenty of knowledgeable people on the subject of all the different possible synthetic hones.

Again, I just wanted to show that it's possible to NOT use synthetics (or hardly) for (starting) honing, that's all.

Sorry Chris for going off the track a bit. I hope you make the choice that is right for you and makes you happy. The more honers, the better.

If you are accustomed to very sharp razors, you will like diamonds. Personally I like .5 micron & use it when I feel that "magic" starting to fade. I'm also one who will shave with only 10-20x off the stones to ensure that I have done everything right off the stones...

Originally Posted by Pithor

My point was not to recommend anything over the other, even though I nudge towards coticules, because it was how I started and I never really needed anything else since they are so versatile. This was not to talk down sythetics (or diamond sprays and such as well), I just wanted to give a different angle and add something new to the discussion. I thought I made that clear, but obviously not clear enough.

The problem Pithor is because you havn't ever used them, many/most of your assumtions about them are totally inaccurate, but you blindly state them anyway, and I am sorry but that is a pet peeve of mine..

I could go back through your posts here and tear them down statement by statement but it is way easier to simply point out that you are biased to using only what you know... If you had only stated what you know, that would have been different but you expanded into talking about things you have never used..

The worst part is that now I have soured your opinion about synthetics and you will probably never try them and if you do, you will try them with the attitude to prove that guy Glen wrong and that is your loss of really nice edges

If you took the time to actually learn how to really use the Sythetics they will surprise you...

I use both Naturals and Synthetics,, and love them both,,

Now having sat down with quite a few new honers in person I can factually tell you that most (not all) find the larger stones much easier to use, when learning, this is why those of us that have taken the time to sit and teach keep, recommending the same thing over and over and over not because we like them better and not because we haven't used other, it is because we try and give the easiest path for the most people...

I leave you with a simple statement, take the time to hone on an 8x3 Synthetic and learn it as well as you learned your Coticule and enjoy the shave, you might learn someting new

g

Originally Posted by shooter74743

I have worked on and off again for about two years now, half a dozen coticules, and have yet to get a razor as sharp as my normal set-up of Shapton Ceramics followed by Escher. My last effort will involve finishing on oil. We will see.

______________________

+1 on the Shaptons. And the Escher or Thuringian.

Try finishing on Spyderco UF w/ .1 micron iron oxide for a "smooth" edge.

Jerry

To Chris: again, sorry for slightly polluting your thread, I hope you find what you want and need, and hope that at least some of my ranting was useful to you. I just felt compelled to defend my point of view.

Again, I was just looking to add a different perspective to the discussion, and considered this to be a discussion. I do not necessarily take criticism as attacks on my character, and therefore am not spiteful towards anyone, I just hope, if nothing else, that someone realised that you can start honing any way you prefer, instead of looking for the easiest way. Over and out, catch you later, and happy honing.