Thread: Me first stone! Naniwa, Coti?

Originally Posted by Wintchase

There are a couple guys on Oahu, you should throw a Hawaii post out there and wrangle them together. I lived there for 6 years, how are you keeping rust and mold off the blade and strop? The humidity is a killer.

Oh yeah, its horrible.. I made a habit of wiping my blade after each pass on my face, then immediately dry with paper and let dry in my other room on top of sheets of paper. Works fine but I have some camelia oil just in case.

And Bruno what stone do you use for finishing?/??

If I used a Coti solely for finishing wouldnt it be similar to using other stone since I don't need to dilute and all that.. or would say a 12k nani do best.. I have crox paste too

I have a nakayama asagi. A natural Japanese stone.
I wouldn't recommend a beginner to buy one of those.
Until you can get good shaves off an 8K stone, you should not use anything higher, because it will just be a waste of time and money.
And while I prefer it to the coticule I had before, it costs 10 times more as well. Japanese stones of that quality cost in the several hundreds of dollars, all the way up to 2000 $ for certain stones.

I don't say you shouldn't want to buy such a stone, but I would wait until you can shave comfortably off the 8K. At that point, figure out what you want to do.
For the purpose of just finishing the edge, you could use a Chromium oxide strop, and you would hardly notice the difference with a very high grit stone.
I know many people who do this, just for the purpose of maintaining their 1 or 2 razors.
If otoh at that point you feel like experimenting with stones because you like honing and you hone a lot... sure, have fun.

A coticule or a 16K shapton would be the ideal finishing stone from a cost / benefit pov imo.
That, or a pasted strop.

For a coticule I would email Jarrod at The Superior Shave and tell him what you want and he will pick you a great stone.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Here is some advice

Read this http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...on-2012-a.html

Understand that the 3/8 Naniwa will do the same thing as a 4/8 Norton or a 4/8 Shapton

Understand that the any single shavable stone can be used with slurry to be a "One Stone Hone" not just a Coticule

Oh yeah wait we did that too, there are way more vids with way more stones now...

http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...lynn-glen.html


From watching way to many newbs start honing and trying to teach them in person I would reccomend a nice wide 3x8 from what I have seen it is way easier to figure out at first...

see here


http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...al-pics-3.html


Edit: Whoops just read ya bought both have fun hehehe

Oops sorry if that confused you, but I have not purchased them yet. I was just saying even if I did I would have to stick to one or the other to fully learn that particular stone. No use jumping around to different stones while im still learning.

So gssix would you reccomend the 3 piece naniwa set over a. Coti?? And is 5,8,and 12k okay or do I need a 1k and say a 3k maybe to fill in the gaps???

Ahhhhh see there is the problem you have to decide,, There is no "Gap" that is a mental myth, there is only easier and harder, you can actually do the exact same thing with a Naniwa 8k as you can do with a Coticule

Why everyone said a Nainwa 3/8 or a Norton 4/8 is they are economical and have tons of information about how to use them...For MOST people they are much easier to learn..

Honing is a bit of a steep curve, the easier you make it at first the more likely you will stick with it and succeed..


The more recent version for you
Some thoughts on honing razors..
Aspiring honers are often not clear about what they are trying to accomplish when it comes to honing razors. In particular, they are often unsure of what they are doing and how often they should be doing it. Some questions you might want to answer for yourself before you start buying hones: this also means that if you are not sure of the answer here, you should shave more, and wait to buy hones until you can answer these questions.... I normally recommend 6 months of shaving before even thinking about honing

■ Are you an "end-user"; someone who only hones a previously shave-ready blade back to shave-ready?
■ Are you a hobbyist who is chasing the absolute finest edge that may be obtained where money is no object?
■ Are you a frugal shaver who is after the cheapest way to complete your morning shave?
■ Are you a collector who needs to take E-bay specials from butt-ugly to shave-ready?
■ Are you a Honemiester; someone who gets paid to do all of these things for others?
■ Are you a razor restorer who needs to take damaged blades and bring them back to life and shave-readiness?

Each of these types of honer profiles have different requirements for the stones they will own. Theoretically, you can survive using the "one stone" approach, but each razor does have an optimum stone set - and more importantly, a technique for using the required hones. So generally, when somebody asks what stone or how to use what stone, the question to ask them is: "What are you trying to accomplish with the stone(S)?"

Refreshing vs. Starting from Scratch:

The types of hones required depends first and foremost on the type of honing you want to do.

Hones needed for refreshing a dull blade:

If the only task you want to perform is refreshing edges that have previously been established by a Honemiester (the process is often referred to as "touching up"), you need only get a fine grit finishing stone or a barber's hone for this. Either of these hones can be used to keep your razor(s) shave-ready for years.

Hones needed for restoring razors:

If you want to set a bevel, or have many different types of razors, you will need a full set of hones.


A bevel setting stone approximately 1k

DMT's 325 600 1200, Shapton 500, 1K and 2K, Coticules with slurry, Norton 1k, Naniwa 1k, King 1k Chosera 1k

A sharpening stone approximately 4k

Norton 4K, Shapton 4K Naniwa 3k or 5k, Belgian Blue with slurry, Coticule with slurry, King 4k or 6k Tam o Shanter, Dragon's Tongue

A polishing stone approximately 8k

Norton 8k, Shapton 8k, Naniwa 8k, Yellow Coticule, Water of Ayre, Some of the Japanese Naturals

A finishing stone 10k and above (this is often subject to debate, however)

Shapton GS 16k-30k Shapton 15k Naniwa SS 10k-12k or Chosera 10k, Thuringens, Escher's, Many different natural Japanese finishers, Charlney Forest, Extra Fine Coticule, even some of the Arkansas stones...

You have several choices of how to accomplish this setup whether you use natural, man-made stone, or a Diamond-style stone, even honing films, but you are going to have to be able to cover those 4 grit ranges. There really is no true shortcut here if you expect to take razors acquired in need of restoration from butter knife dull (or damaged) to shaving sharp: You are going to end up needing these types of stones.


Pastes can be used after the hones and before the final stropping also these can be used for re-freshing the edge before going back to the hones for a touch-up... Some shavers even use pastes to "sharpen" the razor after the bevel set has been done...

A few different types

Dovo Pastes:

Green 5-8 micron
Red 3-5 micron
Black 1-3 micron
Dovo pastes are a much more mild cutter then say a diamond paste of the same micron size...

Diamond Paste:

From 3 micron down to actually .10 micron if you really wanted to...
These pastes are fast and many people use them incorrectly and manage too get a harsh edge, when used correctly and on the right razor steel these will most likely be the sharpest edge you will ever feel...

Diamond sprays:

Mostly found in 1.0 .50 and .25 micron watch the Carat content here, the higher the better (SRD has the best I have found and yes Lynn and Don are friends of mine, but heck it is still the best spray I have found)

Chromium Oxide Paste/Powder .50 micron (CrOx)
Probably the most universal of the pastes, get the most pure you can find, and no the bars at Woodcrafters are not pure...

Cerium Oxide Paste/Powder (approx).25 micron (CeOx)

Super fine, super soft, and super smooth, polishing media...The bar at Woodcrafter's is of unknown quality at this time

Other Pastes and Powders:

Iron Oxide
Aluminum Oxide

Both of these can also be used again be very careful when buying this stuff as the purity and the micron sizes are very important...

Carbon blacking/lamp black:

This might be the oldest of all the sharpening "pastes" when used on a leather strop it increases draw

Wood Ash:

Another old fashioned one very slightly abrasive when used on Linen strops and Leather strops..

White chalk:

Can be rubbed on a linen strop to increase the abrasive qualities

Newspaper:

The ink itself is a very fine abrasive and so is the paper..

Keep in mind that different razor steels like/dislike different pastes, and the different media that is used to apply it including Balsa, Linen, Leather (paddle) Leather (hanger) and Felt paddle and hanger all give different results on different razor steels....


The above are only my personal opinions and observations... There are no set rules in Razordom

I'd recommend going with the full set of Naniwa super stones. I just bought mine from SRD and the results thus far have been superb.

Thanks gssix, I read over that a while back but after reading it over again it makes a bit more sense.

The reason I want to get into honing so early is because I won a bid on ebay for a nice looking razor, but its never been used and figured I should start learning now for when its time to hone my main razors.

I may want to do a bit of mild restorations in the future so maybe a full naniwa set would be appropriate.

Oh and another question, is the DMT 325 used. For lapping or is there a special dmt lapping plate im not seeing

Go with the 9 naniwa stones and the DMT for lapping. Just got mine last week and love them.

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Originally Posted by David52

Go with the 9 naniwa stones and the DMT for lapping. Just got mine last week and love them.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

The Dmt 325?

I have DMT extra coarse (XC) and it is a great lapping stone. XXC is also a great lapping stone.

For lapping <4k stones I just use the XC DMT.
For lapping >4k I use XC DMT, then lap it again with fine DMT.
The fine DMTs sometimes stick to the stone (especially the Naniwa superstones), so I only use it for last few lapping passes.

For bevel setting, I think a worn down DMT Fine is rather excellent. DMT fine is actually pretty rough when you first buy it, but if you sharpen about 100 knives, it becomes much finer.
I personally think that it is now finer than Chosera 1K, and it leaves shinny finish.