Thread: J-NAT Sotne Questions (Nakayama, Ozuku)

Hello, I am thinking about buying a nice quality J-Nat stone (but do not want to brake the bank). I am looking for a hard final finisher.

My current progression is 1K Chosera, 3 K Chosera, 8K Kitayama, 16K Shapton, CrOx 0.5 m on balsa, Diamond 0.25m on balsa, leather strop. (I know the J-Nat is not really needed but I want to try it).

So the J-Nat would go after 16K Shapton (and would eliminate CrOx ).

After some research am I thinking that Nakayama Asagi or Ozuku Asagi would fit the bill. Do you agree? What would you suggest?

Is there any difference between stones mined in Nakayama and Ozuku mines if they are of the same Asagi color and strata is not listed (apart from price that is)?

Please take a look at those Ozuku stones and let me know if there is any difference between those? Hope Maksim can weigh in on this.

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/Ozuku-Mizo-Asagi-lv-5-p/635.htm

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/ohiratomae1.html

http://yhst-27988581933240.stores.yahoo.net/oozuku-natural-whetstone-11936119362103.html

Which One should I go for? Thanks.

When buying Jnat is is most important to get it from reliable source that knows how to test properly with razors.
Name of the mine and strata and such is of little importance as long as the stone works fine.

Originally Posted by ridnovir

Hello, I am thinking about buying a nice quality J-Nat stone (but do not want to brake the bank). I am looking for a hard final finisher.

My current progression is 1K Chosera, 3 K Chosera, 8K Kitayama, 16K Shapton, CrOx 0.5 m on balsa, Diamond 0.25m on balsa, leather strop. (I know the J-Nat is not really needed but I want to try it).

So the J-Nat would go after 16K Shapton (and would eliminate CrOx ).

After some research am I thinking that Nakayama Asagi or Ozuku Asagi would fit the bill. Do you agree? What would you suggest?

Is there any difference between stones mined in Nakayama and Ozuku mines if they are of the same Asagi color and strata is not listed (apart from price that is)?

Please take a look at those Ozuku stones and let me know if there is any difference between those? Hope Maksim can weigh in on this.

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/Ozuku-Mizo-Asagi-lv-5-p/635.htm

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/ohiratomae1.html

http://yhst-27988581933240.stores.yahoo.net/oozuku-natural-whetstone-11936119362103.html

Which One should I go for? Thanks.

My opinion is that none of these stones will improve your edge to any degree. You
have all you need to get a perfect edge.

If you got enough money on the bank and just absolutely want one, then
ok buy one. The C12K as it is called by many is 99% as good as the Jnats
and about 10 times cheaper. There is a lot of talk of some Jnats giving 30k+
finishes, I haven't seen the ultimate proof yet.

All three sellers you listed are ok.

Originally Posted by SharpMan

My opinion is that none of these stones will improve your edge to any degree. You
have all you need to get a perfect edge.

If you got enough money on the bank and just absolutely want one, then
ok buy one. The C12K as it is called by many is 99% as good as the Jnats
and about 10 times cheaper. There is a lot of talk of some Jnats giving 30k+
finishes, I haven't seen the ultimate proof yet.

All three sellers you listed are ok.

The proof is in the edge,if one has no idea how to get the best of any stone then one will never know the true potential.
Not all people have the "it factor" to get good edge.

You really have to think of what you are after before spending $500+ on a stone

Hard Japanese Naturals are one of the most difficult stones to get the most out of they require a ton of work to learn so make sure that is what you are looking for...

People can argue for hours about the feel of the shave as that is a YMMV thing as so much of this sport is, only you can decide if the money and the time is worth it to you,, I agree with Stefan/Mainaman that you have to have confidence in the seller to chose the stone for you.. But you also have to have confidence in your abilities to work the stone to it's full potential

The upper end of their potential is found through the use of slurry, and it isn't as easy as you might think, especially honing western razors and the super light pressure we use..

I find my stone is a bit easier to get the most out of when honing Kamisori

If I read the original post correctly - the OP isn't asking for advice past which one he should entertain buying.
It seems that he wants to try one, and he wants some assurance that the stone he buys will be a good one.
At that point - I think a trusted seller is the best souce for advice since you can't judge a stone by looking at it.

Rid, You've gotten alot of good input there. With 200+ blades done on a Nakayama Asagi, you can still see the curvature of the earth between my skills and mastery of this stone. Now that said, I like the edges from this stone better than any of my other naturals (cotis, thuri). I find the finished edge more smooth than either of these two others - and thuris and cotis are usually reputed to be good for smoothness.

I can't stop thinking of Glen's fabulous dictum that synthetics are a science. Naturals are a romance.

You might want to look up the thread(s) on the Gokumyo synthetics. Several guys that know their way around a stone have described its finish as 'in the ballpark' with their best naturals. The thought of natural 'ballpark' with synthetic reliability is strong temptation for me.

Guys, thank you very much for your input. Since I have never used a J-nat stone I have decided to get one from Maxim at JNS. He suggested that in my price range (around 300) I should go with Shoubudani Asagi which according to him are as good as Ozuku or Nakayama stones but cost less. Does any one have experience with Shoubudani stones? I have read the Shoubi thread. Can any one who used several j-nats compere the Shpubu performance to others?

Originally Posted by ridnovir

Guys, thank you very much for your input. Since I have never used a J-nat stone I have decided to get one from Maxim at JNS. He suggested that in my price range (around 300) I should go with Shoubudani Asagi which according to him are as good as Ozuku or Nakayama stones but cost less. Does any one have experience with Shoubudani stones? I have read the Shoubi thread. Can any one who used several j-nats compere the Shpubu performance to others?

J-nats can't be generalized by name, each stone has its own character. The important thing is that the stone is tested and confirmed to do the job it is intended to do. The name of the mine is not important as long as the stone works.This sounds very vague, I know but, it is how those stones are. One thing is for sure, one has to spend time with their j-nat to learn to use it properly.

Originally Posted by pinklather

I can't stop thinking of Glen's fabulous dictum that synthetics are a science. Naturals are a romance.

lol, it't funny that you should mention this. I keep thinking back to that as I'm trying to decide what I want to do for my honing set up. I have some synthetic barber's hones and a couple natural thuris...

Part of me wants to go for a one stone hone and just get a coti and hope for the best...

The more pragmatic side of me realizes that it's a romantic fantasy that makes me want to do a one stone hone, but it is undeniably badass.

I'm probably going to just go with a king 1k and a Norton 4k/8k or Nani 3k/8k...I am, after all, a man of science.