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Thread: Coticule

  1. #31
    Baby Butt Smooth... justalex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gssixgun View Post
    We (all the old timers) say it quite a bit, but the allure of the finishers speaks much louder, and it is much easier to believe that a new stone will improve ones honing, rather than to admit that more practice is what is really needed

    My best results on my 150x35mm have been from having most of the razor on the hone at the one time, ie VERY slanted angle > 45 degrees. less chance of uneven stroke.

    Wider is definitely better, length for me isnt a big factor as long as its good for circles that'll do pig, that'll do

  2. #32
    Senior Member mjsorkin's Avatar
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    I had pretty high expectations when I got my first coticule, a standard grade, and those were dashed pretty quickly. At that time I was already getting some good shaving edges off 8k but had terrible results with the coti. Later after some practice with the stone, I can make a pretty good shaving edge just off the standard coticule. I have a Boker which I bought new, and have honed to shave ready only on this stone, and have since touched up using just the standard grade and water.

    In retrospect my trouble had much more to do with the small size of the hone than anything else. I had learned on larger,8x3 Norton benchstones and it was a major adjustment to switch to the 150x40 coticule. Once I gained more hand control I was able to do just fine. I have since used two selected coticules that I purchased, and used another select that I borrowed. I also have a few other hones now, in a few other sizes.

    So it's based on that experience that I made my recommendations to the OP in my above post. And I think they are pretty sound recommedations: I favor a wider stone, and larger than 4" in length. Ideal stone would be 8-10x2.5-3 And I would say that for any stone, not just cotis.

    Some people like a narrow hone for warped blades and some like stones without spots. Some like rectangles and some don't. People buy all different sizes for all different reasons, not least of which is price. But that all boils down to preference in the end. I don't see too much reason for me to promote one stone over the other for any of the above reasons. But preference for the size of a stone can be quantified and talked about objectively. Opinions based on experience can be given, and may have little to do with what one actually favors.

    Sorry for the rant.
    Michael

  3. #33
    Senior Member Legion's Avatar
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    I tend to use two coticules when I am honing a razor from scratch. I set the bevel and make the blade basically shave ready with a large, fast 20x5cm LPB sitting on the bench top. I then do my finishing laps on a much slower La Verte, and because I like to do my finishing laps with the stone held in my hand, that one is smaller, 150x5cm. That system works best for me.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member blabbermouth
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    +1 on the LPB getting the job done fast

  5. #35
    Senior Member Cove5440's Avatar
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    I'm going to throw a curve ball here. I have a coti, but my opinion is, save the money and buy a Chosera 1k. I've only had mine for a short time, and I'm not a pro, but my edges have improved dramatically since getting the Chosera. Pair that with a Norton 4/8 and a pasted paddle for finishing and you have a great setup. Again, YMMV.
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  6. #36
    NightAnimal
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    By any chance do you have any other stones to hone razors with first? Are you buying a Coticule to hone all stages? I prefer 8X3, but i have alot of different other brands under 8x3 like the dia plates 600/800/1000/1200 that are 6x2 and i stopped using them and only use them on my hunting fishing knives now, alot of different brands and size's of swaty hones, and also a coticule that i bought in the beginning that is 40mm x 100mm and that was to small for me to use, cause with a 8/8 you drag it 2 inches then you need to turn so to feel the stone i prefer larger/longer hones. dont need to be wider, but to feel the stone i would go wider, and for a new guy its easy to hit the edge by accident when turning when you start to learn to hone if the stone is to small, and with wider you dont need to take that risk. And also like the other guy said circles. But most ppl who have done it forever can sharpen on grey rocks from garden so size dosent matter if your patient or that you have honed for quite some time. But since your new and probably want to buy a coticule anyway, Go BIG BTW forgot to say there are other brands that are better and cheaper.
    Last edited by CanCerManNor; 06-07-2012 at 10:41 AM.
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  7. #37
    Mental Support Squad Pithor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tylerbrycen View Post
    What is a good size coticule for a starter
    Based on my own experience, I would say that a 5x15 would be a good starter size, you can make comfortable strokes and it still is pretty easy to hold the stone in your hand as you hone, as well as being in an affordable price range (bouts are cheaper, and there are some rectangular-ish ones to be had for sure). I'm not getting into the ideal starter stone discussion, just saying that it's personal preference, and you asked about a coticule, not 'what would be the best starter hone'.

    I started with a fairly rectangular shaped bout of about 5x10, but noticed when honing on another natural (cretan hone) of 6x15 that the added length make for more straight-forward X-strokes. Wider enables you to more easily make circles, if that's what you wish to do, although I can make very neat circles on a 4cm wide hone.

    The increase of problems with honing coticules may indeed be, to paraphrase Earcutter, more people buying them and using them without having a good idea of how to use them.

    The "select versus standard grade" discussion is a bit redundant, I feel. The only current proprietor mining and selling coticules admits that there is no real difference except for visual. Another vendor of coticules with a vast honing experience says the same, although he does sell, for some reason, mainly select coticules. That means the cheaper standard grade hones perform no different than the more expensive select grade (keeping in mind that most stones do not perform identically). Business-wise that is not the smartest claim to make; people who really want to buy a coticule will buy one, and if the difference is only visual, many will choose the cheaper option.

    The proprietor mining coticules classifies the hones into either category, no one else. If he says aesthetics and not performance determine this classification, it seems weird to me that one can say anything with certainty about the distinct performance of the coticules in either classification. Just my two cents.
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  8. #38
    Still Learning ezpz's Avatar
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    agreed, and i prefer standard grade coticules.. they are more interesting to look at.
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  9. #39
    Senior Member strawinski's Avatar
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    an interesting discussion ..... ok ..... Jnat Coticule or a very good, possibly old Coticule stamped "Best Quality" certainly costs $ 500 (But he does not get)
    So with a 8000 grit cotucule costs as $ 200. But then I just 8000grit. So I still need one or two stones Naniwa ... or Escher ..... this may cost $ 400 ......... I Nakayama Maruka one for $ 500 and have 3 small stones. that's all well and does not cost more. It does not matter.

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