Thread: Coticule size vs Natural combo

I use both my coti sides..blue/yellow..I find it provides a bit more keeness than going on yellow side alone..YMMV

Thank you for your replies. It seems like some are saying that the larger size is better, but there are others that seem to be saying that there is validation in getting a BBW as well. Would the small size of the affordable natural be too small though to do a minor restoration?

Originally Posted by BobK

Thank you for your replies. It seems like some are saying that the larger size is better, but there are others that seem to be saying that there is validation in getting a BBW as well. Would the small size of the affordable natural be too small though to do a minor restoration?

Theoretically no, but you may be straining the bounds of practicality. I think you'd be likely to get frustrated trying to do something that approached "restoration" with a smallish coticule, even a fast one. My biggest coticule is 7 inches long and I can set a bevel on it, but would prefer not to in most cases.

In my opinion, it's really nice to have a coarser hone to do some heavier work. If you're an ebayer, you may be able to obtain a natural combination stone with some dough left over in your budget for a coarser hone. DMTs, for instance, work well in that regard, though they aren't by any means cheap. They are sold in 6x2 handheld varieties which I've found work quite well for me and can save a few dollars compared to the 8x3 behemoths.

For what it's worth, I've recently started using my BBW in conjunction with the yellow more often and I've been enjoying great results.

I forgot to mention..my vintage combo coti is 6" x 1.5" wide

Hi Bob,

I'm going to align myself with the folks recommending the Norton 4/8 and a DMT 325 plate to lap it. I've got a few coticules, and only one of them is really good. If you buy just one and it works well for you, you're a lucky man. But like everything from nature, there's a lot of variation. If you get one that's not a very good honer, and you're just learning to hone, how will you know if you're making reasonable progress? The Norton 4/8 is as close to a plain vanilla razor hone as there is; if you use one and have questions there are probably two or three hundred folks here who, at some point, had exactly the same questions themselves. My own first honing success came from doggedly following the pyramid honing instructions (see our wiki) on the Norton. And if you decide you don't like honing, you can resell your Norton without too much of a loss. An unproven, smallish coticule won't hold its value that well, in my opinion--especially if you list it honestly, saying something like "Tried to learn honing on this stone, and hated every minute of it, never got a sharp razor."

I did a coticule swap for a few weeks with a fellow at the other end of the country, so I could experience a "fast" coticule, and so he could evaluate the old one I found in a family toolbox. Turns out that one is very, very slow--and a very nice finisher. Too slow to be a bevel setter, though.

Good luck to you, and best wishes.

Hello,

I was in your same position a year and a half ago. When I bought a small coti/ bbw combo, 5-2 inch. After much research which brought me here, and seems I'm sticking around, I decided on the coticule, not the 4000/8000 combo norton.

I love my stone now, and i have no regrets, but i must warn it is a gamble. for several reasons:

1-Coticules are natural stones, variable, you may get one that does not make a nice shaving edge. Although Probably all cotis are good honing at mid to latter stages.

2- The Nature of your own coticule is know only by you, not like a consistent norton. So when you have a problem people here can only go so far to help you understand your specific stone.

3- bevel work will be slow for almost every Coticule you get in comparison.

4-for the cost you get a small/ hard to use stone. Fun but not easy to develop honing skills on like light touch, and keeping the blade in good contact.

Whereas the norton 4/8k will be consistent, common to everyone here to help, and a versatile hone for the cost.

All that said I love my coticule and wouldn't exchange. Mine appears to me to be a green harder type finisher. But my slurry stone is pink (almost redish) which i think adds cutting power when used with slurry. And i find it able in all stages of honing. But i did get a king 1000/4000 to help in the speed and consistent bevel work. If you need it to work out on your first attempt at honing i recommend the norton as well.

If i were you, my post would confuse me more as to what to do!

Good luck
Nathaniel

Nathaniel, I once took a bbw slurry stone to a yellow coticule and the slurry was purple. So in that case it seemed that the slurry was derived more from the rubbing stone than the base stone. Perhaps the same is happening with your pink slurry stone when applied to your green coticule. Best of both worlds.

I pretty much agree with what Nathaniel said. Also I have used and still every now and then play around with the BBW sides. I have five coticules, one with an unusable yellow side (because of inclusions that get disembedded), all of them have a BBW side (except my Les Latneasues hybrid, which just has two different coticule sides). BBW's vary, in my experience not as much as coticules (who, with some exceptions, also do not vary that drastically from stone to stone in my experience *NOTABLY DIFFERENT, BUT NOT DRASTICALLY*).

In my experience, they make for nice finishers on their own on a very light slurry (which, if you do enough strokes, you don't have to use a rubber for, since they release slurry automatically). But there's nothing you can do on a BBW that you cannot do on the yellow side. So for a $100 to spend on a coticule, the 50x150mm glued to slate seems like your best bet.

I assume you're talking about The Superior Shave deal. I've never dealt with Jarrod, but I've heard nothing but good things from many experienced coticule users who have and I highly doubt that he will send out any unusable coticule. Also because he gets supplied by Coticule Ardennes, who are quite passionate about their work and, as I have dealt with them, they do their job with great integrity.

You can re-establish a nice bevel with a coticule within reasonable time on a razor that already has some sort of bevel. Establishing a bevel from scratch will take hours and I don't recommend it (although I have done it). Usually, I go by the rule of thumb if I cannot establish a proper bevel within 15-20 minutes, I move to a coarser hone, since it means that a bevel has some chipping or a convex bevel which both require the grinding away of more steel at the edge. So if you plan on doing minor edge restorations, a 1000 grit or a 400/1000 grit hone (or something in that range) is highly recommended.

If you are on a budget you can always give lapping films a shot. You will be way under the $100 budget and will have everything you need.

Thanks again for the input. As I knew from the beginning, there is no right or wrong answer; YMMV. My first inclination was to go the 4/8K Norton rout. But I like to consider many different options before committing myself, which creates some difficulties at times, but most of the time it helps me be wiser in decision making, leading to less costly mistakes in purchases.

Originally Posted by ItalianJoe

If you are on a budget you can always give lapping films a shot. You will be way under the $100 budget and will have everything you need.

I had read quite a bit about lapping films as well. And if I do end up getting a coticule, and it doesn't quite cut it (pun intended), then lapping films may be a way to salvage the situation cheaply, and I would still have the coticule for finishing; it seems, many like the smooth edge they get using it as a finisher w/ water.

much to consider; maybe too much.