Thread: Coticule size vs Natural combo

Looking for opinions from experienced coticule users. A little history first; I'm new to straights, been DE shaving for about 4 years. Found a vintage C-MON handmade Blackie, got it fixed up, and have been shaving with it off and on for a while. Poor man's strop kit has been keeping it going up until now. I've decided I want to jump full in, so I just ordered a new straight; Boker King Cutter; and a new strop. Now, I also want to be able to touch up the edge, with maybe a little bevel resetting, whatever is needed, to re-sharpen my C-MON, and to keep the Boker in good shape. Perhaps, in the future I may find another flea market special and want to fix that up. I like the idea of one stone to do this. My budget is $100; so I can't invest in a number of different hones for different purposes. Been reading a lot on hones and honing, and am interested in getting a coticule. I'm elaborating a little because some may find my question flawed, but I'm trying to avoid at this point getting suggestions about getting different types of hone; just trying to keep the comments focused/narrowed down.

Like I said, I've been doing some reading and it seems like some people can set a bevel with a coticule on slurry, but then can't quite get their razor keen enough. So they have found that by using the bbw side of a natural combo, they can increase the sharpness, and then finish w/ their coticule w/ water. On one site that sells coticules here in the states, there are a couple of natural combos I can afford, but they are on the small side; 40x100mm and 30x125mm. Are these too small for a newbie? I originally was thinking of getting a 50x150mm, site unseen, glued to slate, coticule for $100. Would that size be better for a newbie, and just concentrate on learning the stone I get? I understand that there is a long learning curve. I guess what the question really boils down to is this; would having the bbw side to use between the coticule w/ slurry and the coticule w/ water phases be worth the size disadvantage of the smaller stone?

What I started with, and what, after going through a basket full of various hones, I've ended with ... is a norton 4/8. For $100 you can get the combo hone and a 325 diamond D8C plate to keep it flat and touch up your kitchen knives. Maybe a few bucks more than $100 if you get the plate too. Later add a chosera 1k, expensive, but worth it.

I've got coticules and other finishers but the norton 4/8 is the foundation for me. As Randydance taught me years ago, don't go to the finisher until you are shaving well off of the 8k. Anyway, get that as your foundation and add a coticule, or other finisher down the line, once you've mastered the 4/8. I get a DFS off off of a 4/8 if I do my part.

a hundred dollar budget buy a 4/8k norton this is what all the experienced honers will tell you! learn to shave off the 8k side comfortably then move on to a coti

Originally Posted by eleblu05

a hundred dollar budget but a 4/8k norton this is what all the experienced honers will tell you! learn to shave off the 8k side comfortably then move on to a coti

That is what I may end up with, and I appreciate the wise suggestions, but the reason for the question as written was to get a better understanding of size of coticules vs a natural combo. I'm looking to draw upon the experiences of coticule users to get a better understanding of how they work/feel in the physical/mechanical way. The Nortons and other systems are more straightforward. I will use what I learn from this question as well as what I learn from reading other threads about other types of hones to decide what to get.

Others may differ but ..... I have about 9 or 10 natural coticules now. I used to have 15 but I've been lightening the load. The old barbers I knew used to tell me that the blue, found glued on many old vintage coticules for reinforcement, was not good for honing. At some point 30 or 40 years ago they began using slate for reinforcement.

The use of the bbw as a viable hone is only fairly recent AFAIK and I've read that, like any other natural, some are better than others. As for me, I used to use the bbw side of a natural as if I was doing a pyramid before going to the yellow side. Now I don't even bother with the blue and only use the yellow. I just don't find any use for it. Like I said, I'm sure others will disagree but see my avatar for further explanation of my position on this.

well you can get cotis in many of sizes the biggest i have is a 10x2 3/4 and the smallest 6x2 i first learned to hone on a coti but synthetic's are the way to go for the new honer.

Hi Bob,
The blue side of a natural coticule is fun to play with. If you are on a budget you should go with a glued to slate coticule and skip the blue. The blue side is nice but much slower. Most of my razors i can get shave ready in 10 minutes to a half hour. although i have a 200x75 mm what i use every other day is a 150x50. My ideal size would be a 175x 40. Once you get to honing you will find that it is really about you and your skill progression not so much the rock you are using.

Another option might be getting a glued to slate coticule and then getting just a plain Blue Belgian stone like a 100 x 40. Another good option would be a bout. There are no rules that say a hone must be rectangular. If i could only have on stone i probably would not want one shorter than 150mm but a 125 would be fine.

If i had $100 i would get a 150x40 glued to slate coticule and a 150x40 BBW. The worst that can happen is you find a coticule is not for you in which case you can sell it for probably the same price you bought it for and use the BBW for your knives.

I have several natural combos and to be honest i almost never use the blue side. From a functional point of view the blue side is not needed. However a natural combination stone rocks twice as hard as a glued to slate if you know what i mean

regards,
m.a.d.

Originally Posted by madiaz

However a natural combination stone rocks twice as hard as a glued to slate if you know what i mean

+1, I have to say I agree, even though I've gotten away from using the blue. As an object of art, which for me, a natural coticule is, they are just a lovely thing to behold, to handle and hone a razor on. YMMV.

I was the coticule under-acheiver for a dang long time. I get fine edges now with them, but it took more blades to learn than others.

I absolutely agree that synthetics come first - then whatever your heart desires and wallet tolerates.

As to natural combo - 2 of the 3 I have are naturals. I found it easier to get the sharpness on the BBW, using a technique I learned elsewhere. Sharpness was close to that of a Naniwa 12k, using spine-leading strokes on a very light slurry. The resulting edge was more crispy/harsh than I prefer, but then you can use the Yellow side to bring back the smoothness.

I like the natural combo. I can do almost anything that I want with one short of restoring a wrecked blade. BBW with slurry makes for a quick keen edge and then the coticule side smooths and enhances.

I have to admit that my face prefers me to follow the BBW/Coti routine with a 16K Shapton glass stone.