Thread: Atoma diamond plates for lapping

Mate, I was looking at what I thought was an obvious thing, ie, if the 400 was OK and good for lapping our stones, then a 1200 would provide a finer more smooth finish. I only found out when I emailed Stuart Tierney at Tools from Japan, a person I have dealt with many times re purchases, who said, 'If you are putting this near any of my stones (Gokumyo Suehiro's) you will void the warranty of both the lapping plate and your 20 K Suehiro'.....bang. I was told in no uncertain terms, 'Don't use it. It has no place anywhere near waterstones'. He went on to give a detailed technical reason as to why. I have the Atoma 400 and the dmt325, and I am glad that my eagerness to find the ultimate lapping tool, ended up up, saving me the money I would have spent, had Stuart Tierney told me off! So, if your experiences are good, well good for you, but this bloke works for/with the maker of the plates and the stones. No brainer guys.

Great, I will continue using mine, and you can buy something else. Sounds like a no brainer to me!

No worries, I'm only the messenger, no offence meant. Bob.

None taken. I was only stating the obvious, which is I love my atomas, and have had great success lapping my waterstones with them all. I've never needed a warranty on any of the stones I purchased, and I don't expect to need any warranties in the future. When my 1200 does wear out I will be very quick to purchase another just like it. I would advise any of my customers or friends to do the same when it comes to lapping their 8ks and above.

Originally Posted by bobski

Mate, I was looking at what I thought was an obvious thing, ie, if the 400 was OK and good for lapping our stones, then a 1200 would provide a finer more smooth finish. I only found out when I emailed Stuart Tierney at Tools from Japan, a person I have dealt with many times re purchases, who said, 'If you are putting this near any of my stones (Gokumyo Suehiro's) you will void the warranty of both the lapping plate and your 20 K Suehiro'.....bang. I was told in no uncertain terms, 'Don't use it. It has no place anywhere near waterstones'. He went on to give a detailed technical reason as to why. I have the Atoma 400 and the dmt325, and I am glad that my eagerness to find the ultimate lapping tool, ended up up, saving me the money I would have spent, had Stuart Tierney told me off! So, if your experiences are good, well good for you, but this bloke works for/with the maker of the plates and the stones. No brainer guys.

What did he recommend as the ideal lapping tool for the 20 k then or did you save money by not having a flat stone.

I've been lapping my expensive jnats & 8k & above stones with the 1200 Atoma at least 5 years & my friend So Yamashita from Japan-Tools, who in fact, introduced Jnats to western forums & later the Atoma plates, has done so for over a decade & recommends it.

If the uber exe Shapton DGLP is only 325 grit & is recommended for up to their 30k a 1200 Atoma will do no damage unless you do something stupid.

I would love to read the technical reason to not use one.

Please Gentlemen, I am but the messenger. I was in the process of buying one as you know Oz as I sought your opinion, and I received the below reply to my email to the manufacturer. So I figured that if this store makes the plate they may have some idea of what it is for, etc. It's not my opinion.

I emailed Stuart Tierney from a company called Tools from Japan, (Manufacturer and distributor of Atoma), re buying a #1200 Atoma for lapping finer stones. Below is a direct answer/quote to my request for obtaining a #1200 Atoma for lapping.

Quote

"I'll keep this as simple as I can."

"If you try to flatten a fine grit waterstone with the #1200 Atoma, and I am somehow involved, then any warranty that may be applicable to the stone or the Atoma plate is immediately null and void, no exceptions." "I should actually put up a sign in the store, just so I don't have to fix this problem again. (#1200 Atoma with waterstones)"

"In other words, ""Just don't do it"". (Flatten waterstones with it)"

"We, the people who make Atoma, myself and a couple of stonemakers we work with directly, know this is a problem, why it happens, and it's not a fixable problem, but one to be avoided. At the same time, we, the manufacturers of Atoma, can't really tell folks to not do whatever they want with their own stuff, who say it might work for them and we (Are silly!)

""I have the pictures and high value $$$bills to say it's a bad idea!"

"The Atoma #1200 is a good bit of kit, but with the diamonds relatively small, the nickel plating has a hard time holding onto them and they can dislodge from the plate contaminating the stone, wearing out the Atoma very quickly and causing more problems than anyone wants or needs. This plate is better suited to steel, (Hard steel)."

"The Atoma #400 is better suited, Just run it over a few coarse stones to take off the high spots, then you'll be all set with it. It'll flatten the fine stones well leaving a smooth finish."

Stuart Tierney
store@toolsfromjapan.com "

Ahhh ! I see now. You were taliking about flattening & I was thinking maintenance lappping &/or slurry production.

Think about it. How out of whack should a 8k + stone get with the normal few strokes it is exposed to. That same "new" stone could be shaped like the Sydney harbour bridge & a 1200 plate is then the wrong tool until the end stage of "lapping"

I would think to get an Atoma diamond to lodge in a stone a noob would have used excess pressure & used solely the 1200. I bet that happens a lot hence Stu's advice. It's simpler to have a blanket policy in business to protect yourself.

I would not advise the same for DMT's finer plates as they also don't because the plates are flat & truly the nickel is easily stripped from the matrix unlike the pimpled surface of the Atoma.

btw Stu doesn't make Atoma, a company called Tsuboman makes them Easy mistake reading the context of his reply.

Oz, I only bought it up after basically being told not to buy it? I'm happy with the #400 and for my limited usage and care when using and not gouging etc I will probably just stick with it and the dmt325. I made an assumption that the higher grit plate the finer the result. I'm done I think...lol....I'm going for a shave with my fav MoDoSo. Cheers Bob

I have the Atoma 140, 400, and 1200. I only ever have used them for steel removal. They work very well for major repair work on edges. If you have a visible chip that extends beyond the depth of the bevel, you need to remove a lot of steel. Even the 400 can rapidly remove enough steel to eliminate that chip. I like them much better than the DMTs for this purpose.

Originally Posted by bobski

I made an assumption that the higher grit plate the finer the result.

Depends.
Cosmetically I think a DMT 325 gives a smoother looking finish than the Atoma 1200 but I have never measured the depth of the scratches & am not likely to. As I said in my pm, it makes no difference to my honing.