Thread: South African Hones....

Originally Posted by brooksie967

Is anyone using the purple welsh slate for a finisher still? How does the zulu compare?

Are those the hones that were for sale on Ebay, he had 3 different kinds?

Originally Posted by zib

Are those the hones that were for sale on Ebay, he had 3 different kinds?

Yep, I'm using the purple one as a finisher after a Nani 12k. Just wondering if anyone has compared the zulu edges with these.

Originally Posted by mainaman

Coticules have spherical grit particles, Jnatas and Thuri/Escher are flakes not even remote resembpance to sphere, they are wide and not very thick.

Right, thus the comment "if they are that nicely shaped". It's easier to talk about the size of the particles if the discussion is simplified. The surfaces of most hard stones look like stacked dandruff under a microscope.

a quality Jnat will be hard enough to not release slurry on its own. Releasing slurry is not good because it will mix with the worked slurry and mess up the refinement of the bevel. To overcome the hardness fo the stone one uses a softer slurry stone.

Exactly my point. I'm not aware of a good finish stone that is natural and that does release grit at any appreciable rate. If the particles were 1/10th the size that they are, it wouldn't be such a big deal. But there aren't any that are that small. Most natural stones that are hard and that have uniform reasonably small particles will make a good finisher if they hold their grit. It's hard to draw a line for a certain stone at an equivalent synthetic grit unless some sort of control is used (e.g., a certain exact amount of pressure is used on every single stone). Once you're working with a surface of a stone that is burnished to some extent, you can not necessarily create a finer edge with a stone that has 4 micron particles than one with 6 or 8, it depends on how they work worn in, and how you work with the stone. If the particles are similar shaped, and without regarding hardness, if a slurry is made, the larger particles will likely leave a coarser pattern.

But since we're trying to grade a finish stone based on what it's capable of, it's not really based on particle size within a relative range. Thus, my only real question is how hard is it bound together, how fast does it break in and will it still polish the work done by a slurry once it's broken in. Some super super hard stones still have to be conditioned a little bit from time to time as they are even slow to polish.

Originally Posted by brooksie967

Yep, I'm using the purple one as a finisher after a Nani 12k. Just wondering if anyone has compared the zulu edges with these.

I'll let you know when my zulu hone comes. The purple stone's particles are fairly aggressive and not that small, at least the ones in my purple are that. I have oiled mine, but I could lap off the oiled layer probably, as it wasn't oiled that many times. I ended up casting it aside and leaving it in the woodshop in favor of the more common finishers (two particular jnats, a coticule, and a boomerang escher that keeps coming back to me). that's not to say the purple slate can't be used as a finisher, mine is definitely a capable finsher, especially given the price.

With all the talk about particles size, auto slury, no auto slury, particles braking down as you hone, flakes, I decided to take my beloved Dovo stainless steel finished Zulu edge and send it back to the 16k shapton and shave.

After inspecting the scratch pattern on the 30x loop, I went to the 16k Shapton with very light X strokes, 10 at a time and inspect. First 10 inspect, oops, forgot to put the tape! Put tape on, 10x very light pressure. Inspect, 10 more until about 98% of the edge was covered with the new scratch pattern, 30 total. The first 10 scratch pattern blended with the new 30 with tape. Then finished with almost dry stone, 5 strokes, TPT, loop, all look good. 60 on hard wool felt, 100 on roo leather.

Prep and soap where identical as the day before, I used the Dovo. The Dovo stainless shaved a 2 day growth, for a complete 100% BBS, 3 passes with no touchups. That shave was the best, in comfort and closeness, since I finished its edge on the Zulu. Verry little irritation on chin and mustache area, with no on face or jaw line.

Here comes the 16k Shapton edge. WTG and XTG where uneventfull, it got me thinking how much I have improved with the 16k that the Dovo stainless didn't need the diamond sray after the 16k stone, to feel comfortable. ATG, ouch! I call victory too soon. That was the reason I got the diamond spray. It wasn't comfortable at all, I could feel the edge all along the ATG pass, specially in the chin and mustache area. Decided not to do touchups and ended up with a 97% BBS, but with a lot more irritation than I had in a long time with that Dovo stainless.

Moral of the story, the Zulu improved the edge on the stainless steel Dovo, both on sharpness and comfort, from my 16K shapton glass, to the point, that now I don't want to use anything else (sprays). You know what they say, " once you go African, you don't go back", wait, that's not how it goes.... Either way, thanks for all the knowledge I get in this forum, never ends to amaze me! Double O

MAN! I SO can't wait to get my stone!

Originally Posted by Double0757

Moral of the story, the Zulu improved the edge on the stainless steel Dovo, both on sharpness and comfort, from my 16K shapton glass, to the point, that now I don't want to use anything else (sprays). You know what they say, " once you go African, you don't go back", wait, that's not how it goes.... Either way, thanks for all the knowledge I get in this forum, never ends to amaze me! Double O

Ya lost me there, right when you say something is "better" I seriously have doubts of an increase in Sharpness over a Shapton 16k, you might get a "It feels smoother to my face" which is personal so I would have to concede that, but Sharper??? Nope, I am sorry but that I just don't see happening...

These discussions have devolved into "My stone is better then your stone" and seriously become outlandish and the grit/stone comparisons are a joke on all the forums...

After sending out 30-40 razors honed on the Zulu I have had only good feed back so far from customers, it is a very good finisher, consistent and comfortable, what more do you really want ?????

sorry if I missed this in the conversation but has someone finished a blade on the Escher then put it on the Zulu? If so did it improve or degrade the edge? Again, sorry if I missed this already.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Ya lost me there, right when you say something is "better" I seriously have doubts of an increase in Sharpness over a Shapton 16k, you might get a "It feels smoother to my face" which is personal so I would have to concede that. But Sharper??? Nope, I am sorry but that I just don't see happening...

These discussions have devolved into "My stone is better then your stone" and seriously become outlandish and the grit/stone comparisons are a joke on all the forums...

After sending out 30-40 razors honed on the Zulu I have had only good feed back so far from customers, it is a very good finisher, consistent and comfortable, what more do you really want ?????

Glen, I hope one day I can sharpen even 1/10 of the razors you have sharpened in your life time. If I gave the impression I'm trying to say "my stone is better than your stone", forgive me for that, I'm not.

I don't have any other natural, except the Zulu. I have honed a total of 8 razors (from bevel setting to shave ready) with some success and have maintained the edge of my 14 razors on my rotation with also some success. I only have the Shapton glass 4k, 8k and 16k (not even the whole progression), and a Chosera 1k and a King 1k (from woodworking days). I'm a total noob! You and many others here (shoot, almost anybody here) can hone circles around me.

I write things how I see it. After a third pass from the 16 shapton I felt my face and assessed how many stubbles were left and then give a number compare to the total area of the face. The one with the Zulu finished was 100% no stubbles after the third pass, and I attribute it to sharpness. I agree it can be shaving technic or honing technic (more like lack off). But my shaving has been pretty consistent in the last few months, so I say it is sharpness. Could have come from lack of honing experience and not getting the most out of the 16k, yes, most likely, and that is why I welcome any ones feed back.

I'm having fun trying things out for myself ("believe nothing you read and half of what you see" Jimmy Had's dad), and apologize for the excitement when something I try works and want to share it with others. I'm one who believes, you can always learn something even from a beginner, and that's why I share here, along with all the honemaeisters.

What I would like to see is more posts on how people are getting the most out of the Zulu. Glen, here is my feedback to you. Saying that you have honed 30-40 razors and only had good feedback from customers tells us nothing on how to get the most out of the zulu. (except that you are a good honer =P ) You mentioned you were going to try oil with it, have you? Double O

Just go Zulu, don't be a Fulu.