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Thread: Ceramic Naniwa 12000?

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    Senior Member rcavazos1922's Avatar
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    Default Ceramic Naniwa 12000?

    Let me start off by saying I'm new to honing. I needed a touching up stone and after watching a bunch of videos I figured it was between the Naniwa ss 12000 or Shapton 16000. I went with the Naniwa and it arrived today. I opened the box expecting to see a pinkish stone but it was white and said "New Ceramics". Is this Naniwa's response to the Shapton 16000?

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    Learning something all the time... unit's Avatar
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    Looks like mine. Pull the sticker off, throw some water on it for a minute or two, flatten it, and enjoy.

    They work quite nicely!

    It is NOT a ceramic hone, I think perhaps it is 12k ceramic bits in a matrix. It will form a slurry for you, trust me.

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    Senior Member rcavazos1922's Avatar
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    Ok thanks. I guess they just changed it's color.

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    Stropping Addict Scookum's Avatar
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    Mine came attached to a little stand...

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    Senior Member stingray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcavazos1922 View Post
    Let me start off by saying I'm new to honing. I needed a touching up stone and after watching a bunch of videos I figured it was between the Naniwa ss 12000 or Shapton 16000. I went with the Naniwa and it arrived today. I opened the box expecting to see a pinkish stone but it was white and said "New Ceramics". Is this Naniwa's response to the Shapton 16000?

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    I have both the above mentioned stones and I perfer the ss to the shapton. And the SS is much cheaper.
    Stingray

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    Senior Member blabbermouth
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    I don't think ceramic or not has anything to do with the slurrying ability. It has to do with the type of abrasive in the stone. Ceramic alumina is a tougher abrasive than aluminum oxide used in older stones.

    At the risk of butchering exactly what the difference is between all of the abrasives:
    * aluminum oxide is a term thrown around, but there are a lot of different types. it's a sharp abrasive that at least in some versions is friable
    * ceramic alumina is a type manufactured by a process that makes it very tough

    What makes a stone "ceramic" or not is probably whether or not it uses ceramic alumina. The binder will be resin (like a shapton), magnesia (like a chosera), or maybe even vitrified (old norton india stones are vitrified, but they are not ceramic alumina as far as I know).

    So if you put ceramic alumina in a resin or magnesia stone that has a soft binder, it will still slurry. If it slurries fast, one would wonder what the reason would be to have such a tough abrasive, because it won't be around long.

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    Learning something all the time... unit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveW View Post
    I don't think ceramic or not has anything to do with the slurrying ability. It has to do with the type of abrasive in the stone. Ceramic alumina is a tougher abrasive than aluminum oxide used in older stones.

    At the risk of butchering exactly what the difference is between all of the abrasives:
    * aluminum oxide is a term thrown around, but there are a lot of different types. it's a sharp abrasive that at least in some versions is friable
    * ceramic alumina is a type manufactured by a process that makes it very tough

    What makes a stone "ceramic" or not is probably whether or not it uses ceramic alumina. The binder will be resin (like a shapton), magnesia (like a chosera), or maybe even vitrified (old norton india stones are vitrified, but they are not ceramic alumina as far as I know).

    So if you put ceramic alumina in a resin or magnesia stone that has a soft binder, it will still slurry. If it slurries fast, one would wonder what the reason would be to have such a tough abrasive, because it won't be around long.
    My comment was based on my concern when I received my stone that it was a solid brick of ceramic like the Spyderco hones which do not slurry at all...they are not a water stone, they are a solid ceramic.

    While solid ceramics can be nice, I was expecting a water stone...and that is what I received in spite of the appearance and initial concerns

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    Senior Member blabbermouth
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    Yeah, they are a super smooth stone. Like a notch up in fineness and feel vs. the other softer stones that are the old clay binder type.

    Actually, I have no idea what the binder is in a superstone, but I did have the 12k for a while for woodworking (Before razor use). I wish I'd have kept it, it was a bit too soft for my taste for woodworking tools, but it had a great feel.

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    Senior Member rcavazos1922's Avatar
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    I was thinking the same thing. I thought it was going to be like the rods on the Spyderco Sharp Maker "correct name?"
    Last edited by rcavazos1922; 09-14-2012 at 07:52 PM.

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    Senior Member turando72's Avatar
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    I love my Naniwa SS - got a nice feel and have been quite easy for me to get to grips with them. I, too initially had the 12K to maintain the edge of shave ready blades, although I had to get the lower grit ones after a while.

    BTW my 12K is also white.....

    Ash
    Kurtz (Apocalypse Now): "I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. That's my dream; that's my nightmare. Crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor... and surviving."

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