Thread: If you could only buy one...

Hey just started honing my own razors and right now I am getting a decent edge from my Naniwa 4k/8k stone especially after I finish with CrO paste. However it is still grabbing and not as smooth as I know it can be. I think I want to buy another stone but with finances as they are I can only get one good stone. Right now I am looking at either 1) Zulu Grey stone from South Africa or 2) a 12k or 16k synthetic hone. Any suggestions?

If it's still grabbing and pulling after crox and stropping, I doubt it's the stones. Make sure you lapped them completely flat. If you are using them to set bevels as well, the bevel is more than likely not completely set. If you are just resharpening/touching up the blades, you could be doing too much or not enough work on the stones. I still use the numbers to keep track of how much work I'm doing, but make sure to use the TPT and test the edge after the bevel setting and 4k to make sure the edge is still holding, then move to your 8k w/ just x strokes for about 20-30 laps, then no more than 10 or 15 laps on the crox. If you're doing 30, 40, or 50 laps on the pastes you could be rolling the edge or creating a bur and not realize it. Hope that helps.

A recommendation..hmm...I recommend not buying any other stone. Then again, I bought all of them so....

You don't need a new finisher, what you need is a bevel setter. Buy a naniwa chosera 1k. If the strop is correctly pasted, and you have a 4k-8k (or 3k-8k), you don't need a new finisher.

Originally Posted by Vasilis

You don't need a new finisher, what you need is a bevel setter. Buy a naniwa chosera 1k. If the strop is correctly pasted, and you have a 4k-8k (or 3k-8k), you don't need a new finisher.

I agree. For awhile there I wasn't getting good shaves after coming off of my 8k, and I was convinced that I needed something higher in grit to "fine-tune" the edge...I was wrong!!

The truth is, you should be able to shave off of 8k, provided your bevel is set properly. Do yourself a favor and go get a Chosera or King (what I use) 1k...you'll be glad you got that instead of a finisher, trust me!! Like gssixgun says, 90% of honing a razor is bevel-setting.....(or something to that effect)

Is your razor stainless or carbon steel? if it's carbon steel, I would probably get the zulu instead. You can shave right off of the good naturals with great keenness and no irritation (jnats, eschers and probably the zulu (i also ordered one)), but from what I can tell so far, stainless will prefer the finest synthetics as a matter of practice, with the chromium oxide as the last step.

I have the shapton 15k, and I just don't like it that much for razors. It is a fantastic tool hone, but it seems like it does odd things with my razors sometimes. I'd go the naniwa 12k or sigma power 13k if I were trying to top out on synthetics but also not breaking the bank.

That's not to say you can't finish a stainless steel razor with a natural stone, you can, but the composition of the carbon steels provide fewer carbides (near zero) that are harder than the abrasive. Presumably the stainless has a lot of chromium carbides, even if they are made smaller and more uniform by cryogenic treatment.

All that said, if you avoid heavily pasted strops and don't alter the geometry, it probably doesn't matter too much what you do, because once your razor is in shape, you'll not have to remove much metal to keep it there.

Originally Posted by regularjoe

A recommendation..hmm...I recommend not buying any other stone. Then again, I bought all of them so....

I would argee with this. But some how i going to end up buying more.
every time i do i say this would be the last one.

When you are considering the purchase of a bevel setter vs a finishing stone you should factor in cost, since it sounds like you are trying to respect a budget. A synthetic 1 or 2 K from Naniwa or Shapton will set you back $35-$65. A 12 or 16K stone is probably at least twice that. The more exotic finishers start at "expensive" and go up from there.

If it were my decision I would pick up a synthetic bevel setter next and plan on buying a higher grit finisher as the budget allows and your personal taste gets more defined.

Originally Posted by DaveW

It is extremely well known elsewhere,

Where exactly are you referring to?

Perhaps you can provide references and further explanation. I am having difficulty understanding your post.

Originally Posted by unit

Where exactly are you referring to?

Perhaps you can provide references and further explanation. I am having difficulty understanding your post.

Woodworking, metalworking, polishing, toolmaking, knife enthusiasts....all of these folks seem to have a better grasp on carbides and abrasives. Carbides are pretty much the reason oilstones have fallen out of favor with woodworkers, and even novice woodworkers seem to have a good understanding of why some tool steels are more difficult to sharpen than others. Metalworkers and machinists have a good understanding of them because they've been using high speed steel cutters for a long time, and toolmaker's for the same reason.

Part of the reason there's not a good grasp of it in the razoring world is because most razors seem to be made of mystery steel. Aside from that, I'm not sure why it is not that well understood when the information is freely available and everyone else seems to have a good grasp on it. All of the other hobbyists / trades I mentioned above know exactly what steel they're sharpening when they're choosing an abrasive. Nobody in *any* of them would recommend a natural stone for a razor that was cryogenically treated 440C, even though the cryogenic treatment does make for an improvement in the size and structure of the carbides.

To the point of the original question, if you like to use mostly stainless razors and you match up a stone with soft silica abrasive or novaculite, it shouldn't be a surprise that you have a lot less room for error and a lot more time at the stones to get an edge that will still be inferior to a quick carbon steel edge.

Stop by woodcentral and mention carbides and abrasives, and provide the opinion above, that stainless and carbon steel sharpen to a similar level of sharpness, and see what people say. You will instantly get a response that it is only the case with abrasives harder than the carbides in the stainless steel (though woodworkers more commonly use A2 steel and in some cases high speed steel, the carbides are the same elements).