Thread: If you could only buy one...

Originally Posted by Vasilis

You don't need a new finisher, what you need is a bevel setter. Buy a naniwa chosera 1k. If the strop is correctly pasted, and you have a 4k-8k (or 3k-8k), you don't need a new finisher.

I agree. For awhile there I wasn't getting good shaves after coming off of my 8k, and I was convinced that I needed something higher in grit to "fine-tune" the edge...I was wrong!!

The truth is, you should be able to shave off of 8k, provided your bevel is set properly. Do yourself a favor and go get a Chosera or King (what I use) 1k...you'll be glad you got that instead of a finisher, trust me!! Like gssixgun says, 90% of honing a razor is bevel-setting.....(or something to that effect)

Is your razor stainless or carbon steel? if it's carbon steel, I would probably get the zulu instead. You can shave right off of the good naturals with great keenness and no irritation (jnats, eschers and probably the zulu (i also ordered one)), but from what I can tell so far, stainless will prefer the finest synthetics as a matter of practice, with the chromium oxide as the last step.

I have the shapton 15k, and I just don't like it that much for razors. It is a fantastic tool hone, but it seems like it does odd things with my razors sometimes. I'd go the naniwa 12k or sigma power 13k if I were trying to top out on synthetics but also not breaking the bank.

That's not to say you can't finish a stainless steel razor with a natural stone, you can, but the composition of the carbon steels provide fewer carbides (near zero) that are harder than the abrasive. Presumably the stainless has a lot of chromium carbides, even if they are made smaller and more uniform by cryogenic treatment.

All that said, if you avoid heavily pasted strops and don't alter the geometry, it probably doesn't matter too much what you do, because once your razor is in shape, you'll not have to remove much metal to keep it there.

As have been said above, getting a finer hone at this stage is perhaps not the right way.
With that I mean that you really should get a great shave off of what you already have.

That said, as far as finishers go, there are tons of them out there.

Naniwa SS12K, Chosera 10K, Sigma select 13K, Shapton 12/15/30K pro and Glass to name a few.
All of them stellar hones.
If you want to reach up to that very top shelf though, a good JNat, a Charnley Forest, an Escher or a Suehiro Gokumyo 20K is where you could look
(these puppies are expensive though, and truly not needed for a good shave)

Thanks for the replies everyone. Stones have been copiously lapped starting at 220 grit and incrementally stepped up to 1200 grit sandpaper on glass. The razor is carbon steel i believe. Just to note I am getting good shaves from the current stones, just not the buttery smooth or effortless shaves I have had in the past. This weekend I'll put some more time into the 3k and see if I can set the bevel better this time around and if not then I'll look into the 1k stones and see if that helps overall.

Originally Posted by JakeL

Stones have been copiously lapped starting at 220 grit and incrementally stepped up to 1200 grit sandpaper on glass.

I was using the sand paper on glass method, a friend bought his lapping stone around and turns out they wasn't as flat as I thought. Could be an issue for you as well.

Mark

Just a quick note on Dave's point about synthetics on stainless steel blades. I shaved with the Flaschner this morning and it was perfecct. sharp and smooth. Can't wait to use this technique on my other stainless blades and it also confirms that I really prefer the carbon steel blades much more.Just enjoy using my natural stones a lot more than the synthetics although the Naniwa is much nicer feel for me than the nortons.

Originally Posted by DaveW

Is your razor stainless or carbon steel? if it's carbon steel, I would probably get the zulu instead. You can shave right off of the good naturals with great keenness and no irritation (jnats, eschers and probably the zulu (i also ordered one)), but from what I can tell so far, stainless will prefer the finest synthetics as a matter of practice, with the chromium oxide as the last step.

I have the shapton 15k, and I just don't like it that much for razors. It is a fantastic tool hone, but it seems like it does odd things with my razors sometimes. I'd go the naniwa 12k or sigma power 13k if I were trying to top out on synthetics but also not breaking the bank.

That's not to say you can't finish a stainless steel razor with a natural stone, you can, but the composition of the carbon steels provide fewer carbides (near zero) that are harder than the abrasive. Presumably the stainless has a lot of chromium carbides, even if they are made smaller and more uniform by cryogenic treatment.

All that said, if you avoid heavily pasted strops and don't alter the geometry, it probably doesn't matter too much what you do, because once your razor is in shape, you'll not have to remove much metal to keep it there.

Dave

THANK YOU. This seems a very logical explanation why I can consistently get such good edges on my carbon steel blades and have a uniformly tough time doing so on almost ALL my stainless steel razors. I can never seem to get them quite sharp enough without taping them and creating a microbevel.

I just did an experiment on a Hungarian Flascher 5/8 Rostfrei blade which I had honed with a cretan, coticule and Jnat progression that shaved "ok" this morning but nowhere near what I want.

SO i dulled the blade on glass and started over with a BBW with slurry ( only natural ) and then onto the coarse side of my Swaty hone for 10 laps then the fine side for 20 laps( lent my 4/8 out) very light pressure and finished with 25 laps on a Naniwa 12 k. Hair tests are awesome and then 40/60 on linen and leather.

We'll see tomorrow but I can already tell it's way sharper than it was. thanks)

Originally Posted by RogueRazor

I just did an experiment on a Hungarian Flascher 5/8 Rostfrei blade which I had honed with a cretan, coticule and Jnat progression that shaved "ok" this morning but nowhere near what I want.

SO i dulled the blade on glass and started over with a BBW with slurry ( only natural ) and then onto the coarse side of my Swaty hone for 10 laps then the fine side for 20 laps( lent my 4/8 out) very light pressure and finished with 25 laps on a Naniwa 12 k. Hair tests are awesome and then 40/60 on linen and leather.

Is there a reason for dulling a blade that was nearly there. I mean why not just re hone it.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Is there a reason for dulling a blade that was nearly there. I mean why not just re hone it.

I've gotten in that habit, one downstroke on glass, just to see what each of the stones I'm using is actually doing to the edge. I honed the blade with a very different set of stones the other day and wanted to start over fresh.

Originally Posted by RogueRazor

I've gotten in that habit, one downstroke on glass, just to see what each of the stones I'm using is actually doing to the edge. I honed the blade with a very different set of stones the other day and wanted to start over fresh.

Just sounds like your making more work for yourself, like one step forward & 2 backwards.
10-20 strokes into a new honing & you would already have a fresh edge.