Thread: Norton not Cutting

Possibilities:

1. Is your lapping removing the pencil marks?
2. The 4K does require quite a bit of lapping to come into its own.
3. 229 grit sandpaper? Is that correct? I would have gone with 400 or 600 as a minimum.

Let's see
yes - the marks are completely removed - this has been done twice with several other attempts without the marks. I am fairly sure the stones are flat.
The surfaces do appear to be even and consistent from edge to edge of each stone.
Sorry about the 229 - it seems that the nine is next door to the zero. I picked that since the progress with 320 was slow ....

Just now - the 8k is removing more metal that then 4k - I am pretty sure that is not normal.

thanks for the help...

Originally Posted by DavidinTexas

Let's see
yes - the marks are completely removed - this has been done twice with several other attempts without the marks. I am fairly sure the stones are flat.
The surfaces do appear to be even and consistent from edge to edge of each stone.
Sorry about the 229 - it seems that the nine is next door to the zero. I picked that since the progress with 320 was slow ....

Just now - the 8k is removing more metal that then 4k - I am pretty sure that is not normal.

thanks for the help...

How are you determining how much metal is being removed? Viewing the metal on the hone itself would in my opinion be a poor way to determine this, and I haven't heard of that as a means to sharpening a razor, really. When you're setting a bevel and needing to do a lot of work on a razor certainly you'll see some evidence of the razor's metal on the hone, but it's probably a poor way to determine success.

I think checking out the actual edge of the razor; with a magnifying glass or even with the naked eye is a good way. I use only three tests, really. Firstly, the Thumb Pad Test. Using my thumb I gently rub it sideways against the edge. By this I can tell (by experience) if the edge is sharp at all. The edge 'catches' the skin of my thumb. Secondly, as I start the honing, I shave my leg hairs as a test. If the razor pops hairs easily I go from the 4/8 to the Shapton 16k. The third test is of course the shave itself. In my opinion and experience that's the only set of tests I need.

To reiterate, in my experience I don't see a lot of metal on the hone unless I'm doing a LOT of honing (setting a bevel).

It sounds to me that you are lapping correctly. I use the Norton lapping stone and although many talk of other options I find the Norton lapping stone adequate.

Hope this is of some help.

Carl

David, you might not be getting to the edge of the bevel.....yet. IMO, Dovo's come with a bevel which is way steep. You might need to do a felt tip marker test to see if you are getting to the edge, or just grinding down the top of the bevel. Paint the entire bevel with a marksalot or similar, lay the blade flat on the 1000 stone and go several strokes. Look at the edge carefully under magnification. If you see any remnants of the black on the very edge, I would say to tape the spine with a layer of electrical tape and get with the 1000 until this test is positive. Change the tape frequently. As the ink disappears, the bevel is reaching the edge! Then, and only then, will you be ready to begin. A new piece of tape and then begin. JMO

OK - to be clear - I am not using the metal on the stone to gauge the sharpness of the blade or to gauge the amount of honing i have done. But when it seems to take 100-200 strokes to get any kind of sharpness (based on shaving arm hair) AND I am not seeing any metal on the 4k - then I wonder what is happening.

i also tried marking the edge (red sharpie). the red slowly disappeared - reasonably evenly - but it took maybe 10 strokes.

It seems that I see much more metal on the 8k (yellow) than I see on the white (4k). Once I got to the 8k i have a nice, very shiny, edge. It shaves arm hair well. I plan to strop, gently, and test shave in the morning.

Once again - I appreciate everyone's help and ideas.

Originally Posted by DavidinTexas

...OK - to be clear - I am not using the metal on the stone to gauge the sharpness of the blade or to gauge the amount of honing i have done. But when it seems to take 100-200 strokes to get any kind of sharpness (based on shaving arm hair) AND I am not seeing any metal on the 4k - then I wonder what is happening...

Set a bevel with the 1k, using circles. Don't progress to the 4/8 until you think it passes the TPT and shaves leg hair. When you progress to the 4/8, choose a system (aggressive pyramid, for instance) and don't stray. Pyramids are good for beginners. At times, I've found if you don't follow a system, you simply end up floundering all over the place doing this and that getting progressively more frustrated. A pyramid keeps you on a track.

When I first started I expected to see more metal or evidence on the hones. Then I concentrated on the technique, the wave being pushed by the edge, and the look and feel of the edge.

That's what it comes down to, actually; technique, the wave, the look and the feel. There is nothing else. But I know nothing really, in comparison to many...

I found I really needed to 'get into' the whole experience to actually hone. It really is a very simple but fully immersing thing; very Zen like. I don't mean to sound condescending at all, I know you have probably experienced this, just saying...

To all - once again - thank you for your help and support. Nice to feel that you are not alone.

I was trying to focus on the technique as Carl mentioned - but I was very concerned as it looked like nothing was happening. It actually took a couple of hundred strokes on the 4k before the blade would cut arm hair.

The 8k was very "zen" like for me. I got into a pattern where the blade just glided along - almost felt like it was not touching the stone - but it was as evidenced by the metal showing up and the very shiny edge that developed - almost looked like a mirror. i decided to stop there and waited until I could shave with the blade.

I did that this morning and it cut nicely - no more tugging and pulling. May have been the best shave to date with the straight - surely the most satisfying!

I think I will spend some time studying up on lapping stones - that should, if nothing else, make be feel better about the whole thing.

Thanks,
David