Thread: Coticule help please

I'm new to the forum, and new to straight razor shaving in general. I bought a nice coti from the superior shave and a slurry stone. I've done lots of reading and watching videos, and practiced on my rock with the dilucot method every day, with mixed results. After having a little trouble reaching that keener edge, I emailed Jarrod at Superior Shave to see if he could tell what kind of rock I got. He said it appeared to be a La Grise, or possibly a slow dressante. I've read a lot about the la grise being a tough nut to crack, and being on the slow side. I practice with a Dovo SS olive wood and an old Melchior Brother carbon steel, and I have trouble getting past a certain point. I can get both blades to play the violin consistently before stropping, and occasionally can get popping in certain spots of blades after stropping, but something just doesn't seem right. I feel like I should have a much keener edge, but maybe I'm wrong. They shave fine, but I don't have anything to compare to except how my Dovo was when I bought it new from the apothecary here in Chicago, and he said he honed on a Naniwa. I've tried switching up slurry thicknesses, numbers of laps and cycles, finishing with Norton honing oil, etc. I take my time and am very diligent with keeping the strokes good. I actually even tried the dilucot on my little slurry stone, and it seemed a little keener on that stone. Not sure what layer or vein the slurry stone is. I tried the unicot method tonight on my main hone, and I just can't seem to get the edges keen enough to pop hair a lot with HHT. Could be my HHT method or the hair from my head not being good for the test. Sorry for the long post -- I guess I have 3 questions for anyone who would like to chime in. Does my bout look like a la grise to you, and if so, any tips that might make it different to hone with? Also, I know that an HHT is not the most definitive test, but should it definitely be popping hairs when ran across the blade to give a decent shave? Also, does the fact that the Dovo is stainless make it hone differently? Thanks in advance friends

Hi John, Welcome to SRP. Coticules in general , no matter which vein, take some 'getting to know'. This is why I feel lucky to have been started off with the old tried and true Norton 4/8 combo along with a 1k bevel setter. I was able to learn to hone on a stone that is consistently the same no matter who is using it. So for example when I asked for help there was a huge data base of experience to draw from.

Anyway, it takes practice and patience. I bought a lot of cheap vintage razors to practice on. Good but cosmetically nothing to look at. Also bought some pro honed to have something to compare my own efforts with.

I've done a lot of honing on coticules. I like them but I prefer getting up to speed on the Norton 4;/8 and then going to a coticule or an escher to finish. Going from square one on a coticule can be done by a knowledgeable honer ....... with a lot of time to waste .... but I'd rather bring it up to the finishing level with the 4/8. When you can get good shaves and HHT with the norton 8k you're ready for the naturals and the other synthetic finishers. AFAIC anyway.

I have no where near as much experience as most on here, but I have a vintage coticule combo that I have honed on. I have gone from 1k-bbw-coticule and 1k-norton 4k-norton 8k-coticule with great results, but I have also done the same and got not so great results. All I can say is coticules seem to have a mind of there own on what razors they want to make shave ready. From what I have seen and read it takes time to learn a particular coticule. I am still learning mine. As stated above practice and patience is key with honing any razor, but IMHO even more so with coticules that you haven't got the hang of yet. Good luck

The fact that you said your shaves are fine tells me one thing. your honing your razors well enough to say its a proper honing technique. the way I see it, don't fix something thats not broken. so if your shaves are fine, keep doing what your doing

Thanks for the replies, I actually noticed there was a seperate honing forum -- probably should have posted this there. I probably got a little anxious when I bought my coti, but after reading about how good of a mellow shave they gave, when it came time for me to buy a hone, I couldn't help but get one. I just hope that the one I have is not too difficult to get a decent edge with

Originally Posted by sleekandsmooth

The fact that you said your shaves are fine tells me one thing. your honing your razors well enough to say its a proper honing technique. the way I see it, don't fix something thats not broken. so if your shaves are fine, keep doing what your doing

Appreciate that, thanks! I guess that's the reinforcement I needed to hear, just to keep me from going out and buying a different set of hones to get a "shavable" edge. If it shaves and doesn't irritate, I guess that will do until I can get proficient with the coticules.

Your Bout does look very much like La Grise, in most cases they are good finisher's, not very good cutters. I wouldn't try to set any bevels with it. It's doesn't look like Dressante to me.

The last time I spoke to the folks at the quarry, All they were producing was "La Grise".

Also, given the fact that your stone is smaller, You'll have to do more work than normal to produce results. Each Coticule is different, and it will take time for you to learn yours.

It should be good for touch up's and finishing.

P.S. I totally agree with Jimmy. I'd get proficient with the Norton 4/8 before moving on to the naturals. Once you can get a good edge off the Norton 8k, Try a few laps on the Coti, using it as a finisher.

Unfortunately, I think you will have to buy some synthetic stones, and see if you can make any different headway with them. I can't tell you which vein it's from. Nobody has convinced me so far that it matters in the least which vein a coticule is from. I think MY razors should definitely be very easily cutting MY hairs at any point along the edge. But that isn't something that'll help YOU with YOUR razors. Which is something you already had figured out. Some say that stainless blades are more difficult to hone. Others say there's no difference except for time on the stones. I'm of the opinion that stainless razors are more difficult to get a good edge on. But that might change as I hone more stainless razors. I guess the theme is:YMMV. I hate to do that, but I really feel like it's the truth of it for all three questions. Coticules are so different, one from another, even within veins. There might be ten guys that say they have a Dressante, and it's the bees knees. Guy eleven buys one, and it'll never do anything for him. The ten guys will say it's his fault, or they'll throw out the common thing about each one being unique. Well if they're all unique, then we may as well toss the vein names. But for some reason...we don't.

So if my rock is indeed a la grise, it might be a great finisher for my blades that are already pretty close. I do know that the rock makes slurry pretty easily. The grains turn bright white and really stand out just from running water over it. Also, I can almost get slurry to form even with just water by doing half x strokes with a lot of pressure

Originally Posted by regularjoe

Unfortunately, I think you will have to buy some synthetic stones, and see if you can make any different headway with them. I can't tell you which vein it's from. Nobody has convinced me so far that it matters in the least which vein a coticule is from. I think MY razors should definitely be very easily cutting MY hairs at any point along the edge. But that isn't something that'll help YOU with YOUR razors. Which is something you already had figured out. Some say that stainless blades are more difficult to hone. Others say there's no difference except for time on the stones. I'm of the opinion that stainless razors are more difficult to get a good edge on. But that might change as I hone more stainless razors. I guess the theme is:YMMV. I hate to do that, but I really feel like it's the truth of it for all three questions. Coticules are so different, one from another, even within veins. There might be ten guys that say they have a Dressante, and it's the bees knees. Guy eleven buys one, and it'll never do anything for him. The ten guys will say it's his fault, or they'll throw out the common thing about each one being unique. Well if they're all unique, then we may as well toss the vein names. But for some reason...we don't.

Yeah, I see what you're saying. The guy at the apothecary that honed my blade after I bought it said he'd never heard of coticules, but would look into it. He sells and uses Naniwas, among other things. To be honest, I used that edge for two months only stropping, and I can't really say whether it was sharper or not -- I never did an HHT with his honing edge, just shaved with it. I'll keep at it with practicing the coti edge, but I may end up buying a new hone soon if all else fails. I wish I wasn't so quick to try and hone my Dovo now