Thread: Just got a JNat today - any feedback or info?

It does not fall under copyright, it's fair use!

2nd!

Originally Posted by maxim207

You can only tell by testing the stone! Only couple of people in japan can do that !

Again a lot of misinformation and confusion

One reason I've chosen to leave the j-nats to the high rollers.

Originally Posted by maxim207

Sorry but that is quite big misinformation there !!

there is many Ozuku kiita Shoubu Kiitas at 5000 USD and even more !
I Personally seen some other then Nakayama stones was sold at much more then Nakayama

For the gray stones also, believe me i have seen Gray stones sell for more then yellow stones. So it is not as simple as you describe !

Level 5+++ stones is charged by some that knows Jnats, for beginners in japan or newbes yes they cherish more lv 3 stones, Different stones for different tasks !
Why so Nakayama Kiitas Lv 5+++ almost 150 % more expensive then softer Kiitas

For the kava all recommend to lap it down stones over 1k USD and up usually come with skin gone or laped down !!!!!
No one in Japan can recognize stones by skin or Kawa that is quite of the biggest lie i ever have heard !
Even some of the biggest stone collectors in japan i have asked and all miners include Ohira miner told me its no way to tell !!!
You can only tell by testing the stone! Only couple of people in japan can do that !

Again a lot of misinformation and confusion

Sir:
You do have some very strong opinions about stones, and I can appreciate that. To suggest that some stones you have seen sell in japan for this or that is fine. I believe you and what you have seen.

On the other hand, if I am not mistaken, I believe you have called me a liar. This I do not appreciate, and in fact I am quite offended by your tone.

Sir, you would do well to provide the best information you have at hand regarding these posts, and do so in the most positive way that you can. Counter the information with better information. That is all any of us are looking for.

Alx

JimmyHAD, Come on, you can cheat a little on the side can't you?
I won't tell!

Alx

I borrowed a nakayama kiita from a friend that he bought from you. I have been looking on you site for a long time now, but i have to say it is a quite high price on the stones I want

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

One reason I've chosen to leave the j-nats to the high rollers.

My stone from Maksim (Ozuku mizu asagi nashiji) was under $400 and came with a set of 3 asano naguras and a wakasa tomo nagura and produces an insanely sharp velvety edge. If i were to buy an escher that is 8X3, approx the size of my stone, or even a select grade coticule I'd be paying just about the same and I find this set up to be more versatile thanks to the naguras.

Originally Posted by alx

Sir:

Sir, you would do well to provide the best information you have at hand regarding these posts, and do so in the most positive way that you can. Counter the information with better information. That is all any of us are looking for.

Alx

OK If you read my post above i actually do.
But here you go a longer version

About all of these Ozuko & Shobudani stamped stones. Those mines closed about a hundred years ago, those miners never even thought of stamping their stones, they only sold them by the 100 kilo to the wholesalers. There never were copyrighted stamps for Ozuko or Shobudani when the mines were open so all these stones you guys are buying are just newly slabbed up rock from storage and stamped with newly make up stamps. Notice that they are all fresh ink. The stone is millions of years old just like the other mines but the product is fresh. No one owns the Ozuko mine and this is why the stamps are being used.

Did you know that Shoubudani mine is super close to Nakayama and many stones from Kato and Maruichi was actually from Shoubudani and not Nakayama.

The kiita stone that Stefan mentioned at $5,000 is not a new thing in Japan. But I can assure you that there are no Ohira kiita at that price, or Ozaki kiita or Ozuko kiita or Shobudani kiita at that price. Why?
First lets assume that the miners and wholesalers and the collectors and the carpenters who can build a house using only joints and were born and raised in Japan and can speak Japanese, might know a little bit more about stones then us here in the U.S.. Why? The reason is because by the experts the Nakayama stones have alwasy been regarded to be superior to the other mines. It is no mystery that some mine has to have better stones, and the experts in Japan have recognized that for hundreds of years. Just like Ferreri's are faster than Fords. Sure there are a handful of Fords that can compete but as a whole the Nakayama stones have always been better and it is just a fact of geology and geography.

Like i mentioned before there is plenty of Kiitas that is more expensive then from Nakayama. Kiita color is just popular because its looks not performance !
And that is confirmed by many stone experts from Japan even Iwasaki san and Other stone miners
Kiita stones is only valuable because they looks and ease of seen mud.
Geology and Geography is just wrong as they are all same of the same Geological mountain and thats why they called Honyama stones.
In Japan many do not even care about mines and i have seen Honyama stones been sold for 3 mill yen and up without even mentioning the mine and the strata

Back to the stamps. Hatanaka-san is trying to maintain his copyrights, but there are no owners of Shobudani or Ozaki or copyrights to defend, so there will be some stones that are stamped Ozuko that are not really Ozuko stones. They could just as easily be stamped Tommy's stone. Ozuku is not a mine or a place now, just a name of a memory. Any plain gray stone on all 6 sides is just that, a plain gray stone. If that stone has some kawa skin on one side or the back it can be traced to a particular mine with some accuracy. Ozuko is trendy now and ripe for false statements or stamps, but if it is just a hard gray stone its no big deal at $150-$500 a pop. When a stone goes over $1000 it should have some kawa to deciphor or of a particular strata that is easily recognizable like the strikingly lovely renge from Ohira, the diagonal grain of Mizukihara or the before mentioned kiita of Nakayama.

Again wrong, as plenty of stones without Kawa been sold very expensive in Japan !
Actually the cleanest Asagis (gray stones is more valuable than Asagis with skin and uneven structure )

Rarity is important in Japan but in the trades quality is king, every mine in the Atago area has kiita and renge layers, but some mines stand out above all others for particular strata. I can assure you that Nakayama has level 5+++ stones, it is just that in Japan those 5+++ stones are not well thought of, too hard-too scratchy-too slow. With a diamond nagura they can be used, or with Aichi nagura they make a great platform to sharpen with your expensive nagura grit but the stones provide very little action with just clear water. All the mines in Japan produced very hard gray stones and most of it has never been sold and now are in storage or were crushed into abrasive powder for polishing lenses and such.

Yes rarity is important but so is looks of the stone thats what determined the price many times its not even performance, as i told in my previous post Carpenders that know Japanese stones they prefer those hard Gray stones you call waist. Many people like you just don't know really how to use them. And people that come carpenter background they prefer not to use harder stones.
Again here i hope we talk about stones that is for razors and not for tool ???
Also like i told before different stone for different purposes.

I been told in Japan that customers that go in and buy stones in many cases look for Beautiful stones and thats what they like. Thats why all the Kiita hype and thats why they are Rare now. They are called golden stones and the more pure they are the more they cost. If you find a Ozuku kiita that is so pure belive me it will cost as much as Nakayama kiita !

I do not have any strong opinions about jnats all my info is baist by talking with many many Jnat wholesalers, Japanese jnat users that use them every day in Japan
And some of the miners that is left.
Some of them lie or just not telling whole story. Thats why its important to ask as many as possible and collectors too.
And also do your own research instead of only ask one person from Ohira mine and think that all is beautiful truth

Sorry my mistake

This thread has steered quite a bit a way from my original questions. It seems that with my naive questions I've opened a can worms...

Anyhow, this morning I've shaved with a full-hollow 6/8 Solingen razor that I had finished on the Nakayama (slurry generated with light rubbing with a fine diamond plate as I'm lacking a tomo nagura) and it was really good . Just as good as off my Oozuku or old thuri. So, it's a definately a good finisher, maybe even great (but not "magical , if there's such a thing...).

Best regards
Jörg

P.S. Now that there are so many experts present in the thread: Anyone able to translate the stamp? Thanks!

This is what happens when it comes to jnats...

Sorry I cant translate the kanji.

Originally Posted by jollo74

This thread has steered quite a bit a way from my original questions. It seems that with my naive questions I've opened a can worms...

Anyhow, this morning I've shaved with a full-hollow 6/8 Solingen razor that I had finished on the Nakayama (slurry generated with light rubbing with a fine diamond plate as I'm lacking a tomo nagura) and it was really good . Just as good as off my Oozuku or old thuri. So, it's a definately a good finisher, maybe even great (but not "magical , if there's such a thing...).

Best regards
Jörg

P.S. Now that there are so many experts present in the thread: Anyone able to translate the stamp? Thanks!