Thread: Swaty Barbers Hones?

Originally Posted by gearhead222

FWIW, I also have the Norton 3 stone set ,a Naniwa 12K, a DMT D8C, a Nagura to creat slurry, a 30X loupe, a Chromium Oxide strop and a bridle leather strop . Thanx for any feedback-Gearhead.

With a Naniwa 12k, you dont really need a Swaty, i highly doubt that you will find one that beats this one. If you like the edge of the Naniwa you might be disapointed touching it up on a Swaty.

Originally Posted by Geezer

The only way to find the grit of a given barber hone is to compare it to one of a given grit or two hones of a higher and a lower grit. then see if it adds to the finish or detracts from that finish.
So if a BH improves the edge off a 1ok grit hone but reduced\s the finish of a 12k hone it would be roughly a 11k grit barber hone.
This is being done weekly on another forum. Same rules each time same blades, same check hones, a different barber hone.
~Richard

I have seen many of these Barber's Hone grit rating and find they can be somewhat missleading since the check hones are naturals, reason being you give a BH a grit rating from a stone that was given an aproximate grit rating, and if its finer you move to another natural with another aproximate grit rating.JMHO

I use them from time to time. Like Glen said, They're meant for shave ready blades that just need a little bit. Barber's carried them in their pockets, and gave razors a few swipes before shaving a customer, just to be sure he was getting a nice, comfortable shave.

I used a Swaty only for 1 year on a single rotation of about 8 blades. I noticed no significant hone wear, and each blade remained shave ready.

Originally Posted by Geezer

The only way to find the grit of a given barber hone is to compare it to one of a given grit or two hones of a higher and a lower grit. then see if it adds to the finish or detracts from that finish.
So if a BH improves the edge off a 1ok grit hone but reduced\s the finish of a 12k hone it would be roughly a 11k grit barber hone.
This is being done weekly on another forum. Same rules each time same blades, same check hones, a different barber hone.
~Richard

Originally Posted by Martin103

I have seen many of these Barber's Hone grit rating and find they can be somewhat missleading since the check hones are naturals, reason being you give a BH a grit rating from a stone that was given an aproximate grit rating, and if its finer you move to another natural with another aproximate grit rating.JMHO

The Monkey Wrench



This is going to get wordy but some thing to keep in mind when "Testing" unknowns



Your fingers pretty much run out at less then 8k, basically after that the fingers are useless, they just don't have the sensitivity.

The scratch pattern analysis although can be a good exercise can also lead to some very wild guesses.. Don't take my word for this, take three or four 8k synthetic hones and perform a scratch pattern test on each of them, and compare them to each other, you will find that the different types of Grit will give different results so will the difference in binder..
This is where some of the wild grit ratings come from with naturals..
Try using teaspoon bottoms or make actual scratch test squares out of Aluminum rather then using a razor this eliminates the "Honing" variable..
Don't forget the depth of the scratches also, make sure you try and take that into account..

Magnification is fun and we all like pics, but again it doesn't tell us much as to grit, as it can't show us how the grit and binder react together..

One statement I have made over and over about grit ratings:
"Numbers only work within a given series of Hones, therefore I know that a Norton 8k is a higher grit then a Norton 4k, I however do not know that a Norton 8k is higher than a Shapton 6k"..
Numbers may not even hold true for a given brand, take a Naniwa Super Stone 10k and compare it directly to a Naniwa Chosera 10k, these are two different types of cutting grit and two different types of binder and give two different results on the scratch tests and the shave test, yet they are both 10k


Now comes the weird part, your tongue is way more sensitive to the grit differences then the fingers, try licking the CLEAN surfaces, keep in mind this is not accurate either it is just fun, and gives one other indicator. It can however be fooled by the differences in Lapping so be careful with giving this very old test to much credence

What I am basically saying is that it really takes a bit of experience to try putting a grit rating on stones and hones, I honestly try never to Grit rate a natural, I find it inaccurate most of the time, and down right mis-leading some of the time..

Now after all that being said, it should be pretty easy to find a line up for your unknowns by working with your known hones. ie: putting your hones into a working order... Be careful of falling into the "Finishing Trap" where you start stacking stones at the end of the honing progression trying to stretch it out, once you get over the 8k level you don't have much room left to "Finish" so chose your weapons wisely..



I origianally wrote the above to answer some questions on how to rate Natural stone but it also pertains to rating Barber's Hones, or any other type of hone, read the part about comparing 3-4 Synthetic 8k hones again and try it for yourself, also the part about using test surfaces and not razors so the "Honing/Shaving" variables are left out..

I give very little credance to any grit rating given to any Hone or Stone other than one given from the maker as it compares to the other Hones in the same series

I tend to pretty much take grits, microns and the science stuff for granted. I don't compare the grits on Nortons vs. Shapton Glass vs. Naniwa Choser or Super Stones. I just compare the results and they are pretty similar on each of the similar grits and both the 3K or 5K Naniwas are pretty close to the 4K other stone results.

I played around a while ago however when I was at my peak on developing the one stone method and I really think that most barber hones are in that 8K-10K category. I think the ceramic nature of them in general is what really makes them a nice finishing or maintaining stone. In any case, I have a 7 inch Swaty that I have really enjoyed for many years and have been able to hone hundreds of razors on it using the one stone method after a bevel setting with very nice results. I challenged a friend who was skeptical of doing the one stone method on a barber hone and to his amazement, it worked. Bottom line, is that I think we can over think grits and alot of things in our little world, but at the end of the day, an open mind and some patience can come up with a lot of things that will work. Keep in mind that will work is not the same as the consistency and reliability that some stones and methods provide, but will work can be a lot of fun.

Dear Fellow Members-Just passed on a Swaty that went for $43.00, as it had some chips on the edges-chips bad, no? Dear Martin, GSix and Lynn, thank you again for all of your input. Martin, are you inferring that my Naniwa 12K could do as good touch up on a razor as a Swaty? I also have a small 1" x 3" Nagura stone, that I have yet to use. Have seen it used with the 4K/8K hone video-Gearhead.

Originally Posted by gearhead222

Martin, are you inferring that my Naniwa 12K could do as good touch up on a razor as a Swaty?

Most definately! Probably better then a swaty, 10 to 20 light strokes should bring back a really nice edge.

Originally Posted by gearhead222

Dear Fellow Members-Just passed on a Swaty that went for $43.00, as it had some chips on the edges-chips bad, no? Dear Martin, GSix and Lynn, thank you again for all of your input. Martin, are you inferring that my Naniwa 12K could do as good touch up on a razor as a Swaty? I also have a small 1" x 3" Nagura stone, that I have yet to use. Have seen it used with the 4K/8K hone video-Gearhead.

Just flatten the Naniwa 12k a bit between razors. Don't soak it. They tend to swell. Just put water on it and keep it pooled for 15 mins before use. No "grids" Flatten/clean it under water with something fine before each razor (after initial flattening). I use an extremely worn out DMT. 20/20 before every razor under running water. Half lightly. The media is suspended in these things and as using the substrate up it is like a million little spikes. Flatten often, finely, and completely! Great touch-up!
Wonderful finisher!

Thanx again guys! Martin103, I see the Naniwa in a new light! Sharptonn, what do you mean by "20/20 before every razor under running water"? No, I don't soak the Naniwa before using-just a light spray. Am wondering if I can use the Nagura with a 4K or 8K Norton-Gearhead

I use 20 strokes under running water , turn it the other direction, and 20 more light strokes. Seems to be sufficient on the worn DMT. I would hesitate to use a new 325 dmt on it, too rough of a surface. The worn-out one seems just perfect!