Thread: Trying to clarify my understanding

The 4-8 range stones are like a bridge that gets you from one side of the river (bevel set) to the other (polishing). The basic idea of honing is to get a bevel established (which by the way you could shave off, albeit uncomfortably) and then smooth out the sides of that bevel to yield a comfortable shave. Smoothing out the sides is a progressive thing, or at least it is quickest and least painful to do it progressively than in one humongous jump. To continue the bridge analogy - you might be able to jump the river in one leap, but it can be wide and it is way easier to take the bridge.

Having said that, if you have patience and a reasonably fast-cutting 4K stone it can be used to set bevels off even junky ebay razors - I used to do that for quite a number of years before utility overcame my stubbornness and I bought a 1K stone...

James.

So, if I had a pro honed razor that I kept well stropped and, as required, used a pasted surface or barber's hone, when might I ever want to go through the sharpening stage? Or would that only be required for ebay type jobs?

Originally Posted by phunni

So, if I had a pro honed razor that I kept well stropped and, as required, used a pasted surface or barber's hone, when might I ever want to go through the sharpening stage? Or would that only be required for ebay type jobs?

I've heard of guys maintaining razors for years with a barber hone, and maybe a pasted paddle, but I didn't go that route. I wanted to learn to hone and did. So I can't tell you from experience but I've heard it can be done.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I've heard of guys maintaining razors for years with a barber hone, and maybe a pasted paddle, but I didn't go that route. I wanted to learn to hone and did. So I can't tell you from experience but I've heard it can be done.

So at what point did you decide your razor(s) needed honing? And did you set a bevel? Or just sharpen etc?

Originally Posted by phunni

So at what point did you decide your razor(s) needed honing? And did you set a bevel? Or just sharpen etc?

If your razor has been honed to shave ready you won't need to set a bevel. When it is not shaving as well as it was, does not improve through stropping, it is time to take it to a hone or maybe a pasted strop,

So what grit hone is required at that point? You said that you wanted to hone rather than just maintain your razors. Since maintenance was an option, at point do you hone and starting at what grit?

Just trying to understand your thinking/process!

Originally Posted by phunni

So what grit hone is required at that point? You said that you wanted to hone rather than just maintain your razors. Since maintenance was an option, at point do you hone and starting at what grit?

Just trying to understand your thinking/process!

As I pointed out. Members have said that they maintain/touch up a razor, when necessary, with a barber hone. Some like a naniwa 12k or a natural stone (name your poison). Others utilize paste or spray on a flatbed, paddle or hanging strop.

In my case I was too cheap to send razors to someone whenever they needed honing so I went on a mission to learn from the bevel up. If one of my razors needs a touch up I generally go to an escher because that is what I have at present. If that doesn't get it I might drop down in grit to a synthetic and work my way back up. My finest synthetic is 8k and though I have a long Swaty (barber hone) I never really got into using barber hones. Many roads lead to Rome so to speak.

To phunni: I'm sorry I in part caused derailing this thread and hope I didn't cause too much confusion. I apologize for speaking out of turn by saying that this or that was not an answer to your questions. It was not my place to do so.

I hope you enjoy learning to hone by whatever means you like and that you may be a fully self-sufficient straight shaver. As you seem to be getting the advice you need, I will refrain from causing any more confusion in this thread after I make two points of relative importance to me, as at least one of them was directly aimed at me.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Wrong Answer...

Just to be very clear, I probably honed more razors in the last month using a Coticule then you ever have, but it was just one of many stones/hones I used on razors...
And every single one was test shaved regardless of the system used

Well, than I can only admit that I was wrong in assuming professional honers hone more razors than they have stubble and compliment you on your quality control. Why you have to turn it into a pissing contest is beyond me though, I thought I kept it decent.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Jnat-esque layers within the mine. Yes, yes, I know these layers have been "known" for years, but it appears a pricing strategy based upon them is a more recent phenomenon...

Jnat-esque layers? That's news to me, as far as I know coticules and japanese naturals work according to distinctly different principles. And some layers are more popular than others, harder to mine than others, thinner/more rare than others. So bearing this in mind to me a difference in price according to layers is not that strange. That's also why there's a difference in prices for vintage razors.

That's all I had to say, I'm out of this thread.

Originally Posted by phunni

So, if I had a pro honed razor that I kept well stropped and, as required, used a pasted surface or barber's hone, when might I ever want to go through the sharpening stage? Or would that only be required for ebay type jobs?

If you have a pasted strop, ou may never need a stone.
A friend of mine uses a pasted paddle (granted, it is a 4 sided paddle with 3 types of paste) and he hasn't had his razor sharpened in years.

@phunni: to summarize this entire thread: for the purpose of maintaining a razor in good condition, it doesn't matter at all. Glen posted a list earlier with various options, and for your purpose, they're all good. And as you have seen, sometimes people's preference can be a source of strong disagreement.

About using the coticule for everything, I'd like to make an analogy.
Suppose you were going to build a house, and you have a trowel. You could use the trowel for everything. After all, you'll use it for laying bricks, and you can use it to dig a hole. And if all you need to dig is an occasional hole for a potted plant, you'd be happy with just the trowel. But if you also needed to dig the trenches for sewage pipes, you'd rather use a separate shovel. And if you'd need to dig the foundations for your house as well, you'd either buy a large bulldozer or -since oyu only need it once- pay someone else to dig the hole for you. You wouldn't use the trowel for digging the foundations, even though it is technically possible.

I used a coticule to reset a bevel once, because it was all I have at the time. It took me several hours. The better the bevel already is, the less time it takes.

This is where coticules have a nice property, namely the ability to control the thickness of the abrasive slury on top. This makes it possible to make it more aggressive, or more like a finisher. And if all you need to maintain are razors in decent condition, that is a perfect stone. If you find yourself honing more razors with unknown or dinged edges, you could still use it, but you'd be better off with a progression of synthetic stones, from rough to fine (whatever the actual grit rating).

Which one works best for you depends totally on what you are going to do. That is up to you.