Thread: Honing advice for a Newbie? Please help!

As a newbie, I'm hoping that some of the more experienced shavers/honers can help me out with this question, as I am new to the straight shaving world, and want to learn how to hone from the get go.

Besides razor, strop, brush, cream, etc., I want to get equipment to do my own honing as well. I already plan to get the Norton 4k/8k, as I have read many many times this is the #1 most important staple when honing. A few questions now:

Will I be able to get a good enough edge to shave with, by using only the 4k/8k, or is it necessary to purchase other stones/pastes that are finer than 8000? If so, what do you suggest (brand and grit size).

I know of this one, which is 12000 grite - is this fine enouch to finish with before stropping and shaving? :

http://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?...34010444682280

Is this product any good? I figured with a finer grit, the price would be much higher - I'm guessing because it is not a solid stone. If I got this, how long should I expect it to last?

I just got Lynn's DVD today and I know he uses the Norton and then finishes with a Belgian yellow coticule - I am sure I missing something, but at this particulare website http://www.theperfectedge.com/belgian.shtml , they state that the yellow stone is 8000 grit - how is this any different that the Norton 8000?

Here is the one that i use http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=4920. It works well I've never needed anything finer grit than this.

Hi Keith,

Let me offer my newbie advice (I'm still new at this too). I purchased the Norton 4/8k combo and I will tell you that I get a very good edge that is comfortable to shave with and with proper stropping, I'm becoming better able to maintain that keen edge developed off the Norton.

I don't believe you need anything else to keep a keen edge but many members take it the step further and "polish" that edge on some sort of diamond paste, chromium oxide, thurigen or escher or yellow coticule stone.

The thruigen, escher and coticule I understand are approx. 12k grit while the diamond pastes typically used are 1.0 and .5 micron which I don't remember the grit comparison but I'm told you never want to come off the 8k Norton onto a 3.0 micron diamond paste as you would be going backwards so, a little comparison should indicate that the 1.0 micron should approximate 8k grit (someone correct me if needed, please)

I just purchase chromium oxide so I can tell you it's 60,000 grit or .5 micron. I don't know if the .5 diamond and the .5 chromium oxide are equal in grit comparison.

The stone you link to is a Shapton stone and Lynn discusses them in his video. I've not used one so I won't give advice on it.

Bottom line is: to maintain a keen edge on an otherwise shave-ready razor will really only require either the Norton or a barber's hone and I would recommend the Norton because of its larger size and certain grit (barber hones so far as I know, don't have exact grit comparisons).

Now, I'll give you some advice that I've been learning the hard way. No edge, no matter how keen, will last you any length of time if your stropping technique is poor. Spend some time searching the threads on stropping and watch Lynn's video as well. Time spent developing proper habits here and now, will yield very desireable dividends many shaves down the road.

Enjoy!

The Norton 4K/8K is really the only stone that you really need. It will give enough of a result to give you great shaves. Now having said that I will also say that many of us here do use finer grits be it pasted strops or 12K stones or the Coticule. In general the Coticule is really a 10K stone. (actually Coticules can vary from 8K-12K depending on where they come from) I also have a 12K Kitayama stone and the Coticule is superior. It just seems to impart a very fine highly polished edge that lasts longer. But believe me higher than 8K especially for someone starting out is optional.

I would not buy the stone you are looking at. You are paying for the name. You only have a 1/4 of an inch of material there. It may last quite a while but if you really get into this thing and buy many razors and use it alot you could wear it down faster than you would think.

Amplex lists the following "mesh" sizes (grit) for it's diamond compounds.

3 micron 8,000 grit

1 micron 14,000 grit

0.5 micron 50,000 grit

0.25 micron 100,000 grit


I have always been told the 3 micron is about the same as the yellow 8K side of a Norton.

The 1 micron would be just a tad finer than a Belgian or Thuringen cuts even though technically they are rated as 8,000 grit stones. They seem to cut more like a 12,000 grit stone when used with a slurry

The 0.5 chromium oxide and 0.5 diamond should be identical as this number is the measurment of the actual average grit size, 1/2 of a micron. The difference in finish is probably due to the shape of the particles with the chromium leaving a smoother edge.

Many feel the best edges come from a stone, the finer the stone, the smoother the edge. So, if one is up to it, learning to hone is going to achieve the best edge, but not everyone is up to that task. Abrasive pastes may leave a slightly less desirable edge but are very easy to master, so in effect may give a beginner a better edge than the stone, at least until he becomes skilled. Cost is less on abrasive paddles than stones and each type of stone varies in price too.

Tony

Thanks for all the feedback so quickly, you guys - this helps a lot. I suppose I will just start with the Norton and I can always add hones as time goes on - I'm a little surprised to see the 12k+ stone from woodcraft.com (linked above) costing so little - but if it seems to do the job, I may have to look into getting one of the down the road, as I will probably be on strict budget for a while.

Originally Posted by Razorburne

Will I be able to get a good enough edge to shave with, by using only the 4k/8k

Yes, but it can get better.

Originally Posted by Razorburne

I know of this one, which is 12000 grite - is this fine enouch to finish with before stropping and shaving?

I have that same stone and it works well, almost too well really. Cuts blazingly fast and any more than 5 or 6 laps will usually overhone my razor. I don't use the Nagura stone on it and maybe I should. Randy uses the Woodcraft Chinese stone and he'd be a guy who knows what's best. I think it's the cheaper of the two as well.

Originally Posted by Razorburne

how long should I expect it to last?

A lifetime.

Originally Posted by Razorburne

they state that the yellow stone is 8000 grit

It's generally accepted around here as being close to 10k. They're expensive and some of the best can be hard to come by.

I've had the best success from Chromium Oxide on a paddle strop and I think It's all you'd need to refine the edge to wondeful sharp.

X

Hey guys,

I've been reading up on previous threads on honing, and I too am new to honing. I have a pasted paddle from Tony with 0.5 and 1.0 micron diamond pastes - now if I am using those pasted sides relatively often (every 2 weeks or so), then would I ever even need to hone with a stone like a norton 4k/8k? The way I see it, if the diamond-pasted sides are essentially equivalent to using a fine stone, then as long as I regularly sharpen with those, it shouldn't reach a level of dullness where a 4k/8k or coarser is even necessary.

I can't find the thread, but I remember someone in the past talking about how with good and meticulous stropping, one should never need to use a stone to sharpen a straight razor. That whole idea makes a lotta sense to me, but I wanted to see what others thought.

Originally Posted by KP16356

- now if I am using those pasted sides relatively often (every 2 weeks or so), then would I ever even need to hone with a stone like a norton 4k/8k?

The report is that at some point the pastes give out and a stone is needed about once or twice a year on average.

X

I agree with X on this. The paddle will buy you LOTS of time but will not go on forever. Even with a very rigid, hard leather the geometry of the ewdge may change slightly over an extended timne and a stone or hone is needed to re=establish the proper hard edges. This could be 6 moth or a year but an occasional trip over a hone or sending out to an expert is a good idea.

Tony