Thread: Norton 8K

Synthetic are much easier and more predictable. You may consider crox on a hanging linen strop or on balsa. Naturals are fickle til you figure them out. And each one is different. Or get a naniwa 12k. Thats 10-15 laps max and you are done. Depending on how good your 8k edge is though. You dont want to do more than that anyway as you may get microchips on a hard stone after to many laps.

Some very good advice here. I'll be following this thread with interest.

Originally Posted by driftwood

Yes I've tried the Coti after the 8K with water only. I find that the Coti removes the mirror finish that I get from the 8K. I've also tried coming off the 8K and raising a slurry on the Coti then rinsing that off and using water only.

Originally Posted by driftwood

So what does the bevel look like once your done on the finishing stone? Is there a small scratch pattern left from the natural, as opposed to the mirror finish you get from the 8K? I'm going to systematically take one natural at a time and use it in different ways until I figure it out.

You seem very focused on the finish of the bevel.
Under a low power loupe your 8k "mirror" finish will reveal scratches & even a 30 k Shapton will leave scratches. It is the nature of stones to scratch steel, even naturals.

Vastly more important is what those scratches do to the edge.

This is true. Some of my best shaves were from razors that showed some definite scratches still under my loupe. Some of my worst shaves were from mirror finished edges!

Mike

Sounds like you have a baseline and are at least happy with edges you have produced. Moving to natural finishers is more difficult, than say a 12K SuperStone edge and can cause you to chase the elusive finest edge, like so many of us.

First let me qualify that “Hair Test are over rated and not a definitive test.” Why? Because all of us have different hair. What I do is at 1K, once I feel the bevel is sharp, based on how it feels on the stone, how the edge feel on the thumb pad and looking at the edge under magnification.

Take the spine rest it on your arm, rotate the edge about 3/8 to ½ inches off the skin and move the blade against your arm hair at the top of the hair. I am looking for the edge to grab a hair. Do this at 4 different points on the edge, beginning near the tip, then move in ¾ of an inch, ¾ inch more then near the heel. You should be grabbing hair or cutting them all across the edge.

The bevel is set, both sides of the bevel meet at an even point across the entire edge, it is sharp, now begins the polishing. I do some extra weight of blade laps, 10-15. At this stage edge is sharp and I am beginning the polishing process.

When you honed the bevel the grit on the stone created a series of mountains and valleys, lands and grooves. If you were to shave with this edge the land peaks would dig into you skin, you would cut hair, but also cut skin. Perhaps not enough to draw blood but it will be uncomfortable.

The goal of polishing is to reduce the height of the land, tops while maintaining and enhancing the edge keenness. So we use a progression of stones and possibly paste to polish the height of the lands as close to the groove. With synthetics this is not too difficult, if you introduce a Natural stone you do not know exactly where the Natural stone fits into the progression. Natural stones cannot be rated because they are made naturally, not under controlled condition. While most of the grit may be X grit there may be other grits included. Remember rocks are created by wind, water and time,(thousands of years). Just one single courser grit can affect the honing results.

So introducing a Natural may subvert you synthetic progression. Only by experimenting will you know where your particular Natural will fit in your progression. It may very well be less that your 8K. Add to that the different quality or type of stones. Coticules are frangible stone that the grit of slurry breaks down to a finer grit, creating more polish. Other stones like the C12K do not or not to the extent of a Coticule.

Lapping a hard stone like a C12K is labor intensive because of the hardness it is also the quality that may make a good finisher. First draw a pencil grid and lap on a piece of wet and dry or a stone to check for flatness. The goal is to smooth the stone face, it does not have to be perfectly flat. Smooth is more important than flat. I just want it relatively flat, lose Silicone Carbide grit and or Wet & Dry sand paper with water will get you there, it is messy. I go to 320 then lap with a Hard Arkansas stone with lots of water and Diamond or CBN paste if you have it or use you synthetic progression ending with your highest grit stone with lots of water.

Get the stone as smooth as possible, then burnish the stone face with steel. I like honing 2-3 kitchen knives with pressure. It won’t hurt your knives and will leave a smooth face on your stone.

Try your stone with Smith’s synthetic honing oil (Lowes or Ace Hardware) with water and many laps after your 8K, as many as 100 or more laps. If it is a hard stone 1-200 laps is not unreasonable. You may also experiment with pressure, I find honing with pressure works well with Arkansas Blacks and Translucent for some razors, they are similar in hardness to C12k’s.

By the way Smith’s works well with Coticules, try light pressure and more laps.

For Driftwood

I've been using straights for a long time. Really long time. I attribute my honing success to setting a goal. That goal is being able to get a smooth, comfortable shave from my 8k stone. I don't move up in grit until the blade shaves me with no discomfort whatsoever.

At this point it is time to put the icing on the cake with the 12k and maybe even the 20k if I'm in the mood to decapitate myself or all the way to the Nakayama Maruichi Asagi for the coup de gracie.

Shoot for the comfortable 8k shave before you think about all else.

First off let me thank everyone here, all your advice and opinions are very educating.

So I've decided to narrow my focus on a few things. First the next razor that touches my 1K won't leave it until it cuts/grabs arm hair above skin level. Second, as the finishing stones go I'm going to focus on the Coti. I decided on the Coti because most of you have or have had one and there seems to be a lot of support for that particular stone. I will screw about with the other hones once I get a good grip on the Coti. I will NOT focus on scratch pattern too much but rely on the shave test.

So last night I took a razor that I hadn't been terribly happy with and sat down in front of my Coti. I got a thick slurry and started honing I used the dilution method and did 30 laps then diluted with a single drop of water until I was basically down to water. I then slurries again (to refresh the surface of the stone) rinsed off the slurry and did 100 no pressure laps on water only, plus 80 laps on leather. I will shave test tonight. The edge did feel noticeably keener than before so hopefully I've made some progress (and if not I had a wonderfully relaxing time sitting at the stone, honing is win-win). Ill report back on how the shave went.

Thats the only way to do it. Just remember what got you to your best edge and that process can be repeated then. If everything else is the same. Steel, bevel set etc. Its a slow process as you cant shave 5x a day.

Just saw you have 2 C12Ks. Rub them against each other for final finish then burnish with steel. Should give you a nice smooth face when you get back the C12K.

Give the Smith’s a try on the Coticule and do more laps with just water, Smith’s and light pressure even strokes at the end. 2-3 drops on a wet stone, it’s about 6 bucks at Ace or Lowes.

Recently I gave this advice to another member who was disappointed with his Coticule, he was amazed with the results. He was so stoked on the stuff, I think he’s drinking it now.

I suspect the oil lifts the edge a bit, so it only touches the tips of the grit on the stone and there by polishes the edge. It works great on Coticules and Thüringen stones & is water soluble so it does not damage the stone, washes off.

Some thoughts

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...-1k-shave.html

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...on-2012-a.html

http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...st-2012-a.html


KISS


ps: Smith's Honing Solution rocks,,, after you learn everything above