I did a few blades. A progression after 10 k produces a very good even excellent edge. Anything under that does not. SO even with the naguras, the stone being fine and hard isnt capable of removing the amount of metal needed to refine a 5k edge in any reasonable time frame. I did one edge after the 20k and it was extrememly sharp and smooth. The best edge I got from that stone and it didnt take long at all. The light bulb went off and thanks again for your time and patience.