Thread: In praise of micro bevels for problem razors

You want to taste defeat and humiliation? I'll send you my TI Damascus. After a few weeks messing with that baby you'll be thinking you can't even spell the word hone and be begging for me to take it back.

Thank you for confirming my decision to use tape all the time :<0) I think it cuts down on a lot of

Originally Posted by 10Pups

Thank you for confirming my decision to use tape all the time :<0) I think it cuts down on a lot of

+1...I've been using tape (1 or 2 layers depending on the blade) since day 1 of razor honing. I'm a firm believer!

WP34

Let throw a question out to the group and hopefully someone with some experience can answer this. I've had more than a few razors that were in this category. I have one right now that I've been struggling with for some time. Now as we say, 90% of the job is in the bevel set right? Ok. So what is actually happening in my estimation is that I'm stripping off enough steel to have set a bevel on any other razor but that steel itself is not holding that edge and crumbling away before I approach the desired result. Or its crumbling away in the subsequent polishing stages. Adding a layer or two of tape increases the angle, allows a microbevel to form, and is thus stronger than it otherwise would be without it. I get that. My question is, why is this happening? Is it a flaw in the blade geometry? Is there something wrong with the steel in that its inferior and doesn't take a good edge? Or is there something the person in front of the hones is doing (or not doing) that could avoid this? Thoughts?

Maybe it got hot and lost it's temper sometime in it's life. I have 2 razors that just will not get shave ready. If I do get them that way they dull before I finish using them. Has to be the steel is ruined. It's like trying to use a sweeny todd.

Tape will only bring the edge a tiny bit closer than without it. The only benefit for tape IMO is to save some spine wear gold wash etc. That tiny bit IMO willonot shore up bad steel. Multiple layers will change the angle some more. The blade was designed to wear at the spine and edge the same to keep the angle constant more or less. Im gonna shut up now and see where this goes!

Originally Posted by bill3152

Tape will only bring the edge a tiny bit closer than without it. The only benefit for tape IMO is to save some spine wear gold wash etc. That tiny bit IMO willonot shore up bad steel. Multiple layers will change the angle some more. The blade was designed to wear at the spine and edge the same to keep the angle constant more or less. Im gonna shut up now and see where this goes!

http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...-theories.html

I'm definitely not an expert on steel, geometry, pressure, or hones -- but -- since I started taping spines I get more consistent bevels with less work -- and no one despises work more than I do.

Originally Posted by OCDshaver

My question is, why is this happening? Is it a flaw in the blade geometry? Is there something wrong with the steel in that its inferior and doesn't take a good edge? Or is there something the person in front of the hones is doing (or not doing) that could avoid this? Thoughts?

Since you say the edge is holding after you apply the tape then that leads the answer to Geometry, however that might not be the entire answer..

If you have exceptional steel it can perhaps hold the edge at a lower angle it would knida depend on what the spine looks like IMO measure the actual angle so you have an idea of what is going on.. If you come up with something on the low side of 15° then you have a pretty good idea of the issue...

As you can see from my answer, often you have to look at the entire situation to narrow down the problem...

Steel
Angle
Hone
Pressure

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Since you say the edge is holding after you apply the tape then that leads the answer to Geometry, however that might not be the entire answer..

If you have exceptional steel it can perhaps hold the edge at a lower angle it would knida depend on what the spine looks like IMO measure the actual angle so you have an idea of what is going on.. If you come up with something on the low side of 15° then you have a pretty good idea of the issue...

As you can see from my answer, often you have to look at the entire situation to narrow down the problem...

Steel
Angle
Hone
Pressure

The first razor that I had trouble with was a brand new Hart Steel. Being brand new, I'd like to rule out the angle since the spine was brand new and had no wear. I'd also like to think that it was not the steel since it was brand new. But out of the box the edge was, meh. It shaved but it didn't have the level of sharpness I had come to expect from a professionally sharpened blade. So I decided to give it a go myself. I initially used one layer of tape as that is what Hart states they use during the honing process. I tried touching up first on the 8k. No real improvement. So I went to 1k assuming that perhaps the bevel was not great to begin with. I was getting a bevel but it never seemed as good as other razors I had honed to that point. I thought maybe the heavy grind had something to do with it. I went along to 4k, and 8k and the edge never seemed to be any better than when I first got it. Two layers went on (1, 4, 8 and 12k). A little better but after a few shaves, its pulling again. Finally, three layers (1,4, 8, and 12K). Now its popping hairs on my arm instead of pushing them over. Its shaves without pulling. I may have given it a couple too many passes on the 12k as it was a tad harsh but the second shave seemed to see some of that disappear. Third shave and its still seems to be going well. I use the Hart as an example since I should be able to rule out 1/2 of the concerns (angle and steel) since its brand new when I'm doing this. That leaves the hone and the person honing it. BUT, I am a little perplexed because it arrived with a sub par edge to begin with and I was not able to push beyond that until the third layer of tape went on. Now, it should be obvious that I'm no expert or I'd be answering these questions rather than asking them. So maybe pressure was an issue? But after reading the thread about hitting the wall and climbing over, the suggestion to add (or remove) a layer and/or going up or down a grit seemed to shake the problem loose. So for that I'm happy but I'm not really sure what is/was happening where the steel hits the stone. I'll spend some time with the link you added and see where it takes me with the other razor in question (PJM C-MON Special).