Thread: Shortening honing time

For all you advanced honers and honemeisters, how long on average does it take you to get an eBay razor from very dull to shave-sharp? (Assuming it has no major nicks to work out.)

I'm a little frustrated right now with how long it takes me to go from starting a blade to having a good enough edge to start doing pyramids. I might spend a couple of hours on the 1K and 4K grits before I can get the edge popping hairs along its entire length.

I don't consistently have problems in one place, although the toe and heel are more often a problem than the middle.

Right now I have a razor that was in decent shape when I got it. The half of the blade near the toe is popping hairs, but the heel half won't. I've probably spent two hours going back to the 1K Norton, then back to the 4K Norton...

On other blades, it's the toe that's a problem.

Usually I end up doing a lot of circles or back-and-forth honing on the trouble spot to fix things. It seems to work eventually, but it takes forever.

I don't think I'm overhoning the problem spot, because I test frequently, and the sharp part usually stays sharp, and the dull part stays dull.

Any suggestions?

Josh

Average doesn't mean much without standard deviation.

I had one recently that took maybe 5 hours of fighting, and I've had some that took only 15 minutes or so. But you should always know what problem you're fighting, otherwise you're just spinning your wheels. Is it a low spot on the bevel, or an incomplete bevel, or major nicks, or rotten steel, or brittle microchipping steel, or are you correcting the shape of the edge, etc. You should try to find out why it's not getting sharp (or why that one part isn't getting sharp) so you know what to do to correct it.

If it takes a few hours to hone through the rotten steel then it takes a few hours. Less if you've got thousand grit sandpaper handy. And if it takes awhile to figure out the right combination of hones and technique to avoid microchipping then that's just the way it is. But at least you're not getting frustrated because "it isn't getting sharp", you're getting frustrated because "it won't stop microchipping", which is a lot more productive.

But just doing circles isn't helpful unless you know that the bevel isn't properly formed, otherwise you're probably just dulling the blade by the constant backhoning.

can you try using a 1000 or 1200 diamond stone instead of 1000 norton stone,?
ore use 400 grit sandpaper before 1000k stone?

and use 2000 grit sandpape before 4000k stone?

It's a tough question to answer because each razor is unique. Leaving aside any cleaning and polishing .... I'd say a half hour should be enough on a coarse stone to establish a bevel and another half hour on the Norton combo and Shapton 12k followed by ten or fifteen minutes on pasted strops is what I shoot for. It doesn't always work out that way.

X

If I could get my average time down to an hour, I'd be thrilled to death.

The usual tell-tale sign that I see when I'm having this problem is a line of light visible to the naked eye on the tip of the bevel. Sometimes it's only one side of the razor, and sometimes it's on both.

I know that sounds like a wire edge, but I don't think it is. I can't see one under the 60x microscope, and I can't feel one with the thumbnail test. I can't see a double bevel, either, under the microscope. But the edge doesn't look quite clean, though. It's almost like the edge itself is still too wide. If that were the case, it seems like a few strokes on the 1K would be enough, but even dozens of strokes don't seem to do the trick.

Maybe tonight I'll try going back to a coarse sandpaper and doing some laps with an extreme heel-leading stroke.

Josh

Use the magic marker to help increase the contrast of what you're looking at under the scope.

15-20 minutes if it has nicks ,or is in really bad condition .Bob Keyes (altima)and I use the same method,it is simple and fast,and yeilds excellent results.I was taught many years ago,by sharpening surgical instruments(before disposable scapels)and razors.I still have all my old hones,and roughing stones from 1962 when I started as an apprentice,and use some of them every day .It takes me longer to do a full hollow 5/8,than it does a wedge,or 1/4 hollow
Best regards,and smooth shaving Gary

Hey Josh,

My best advice is to use sandpaper instead of the 1000 grit Norton or the 1200 grit diamond hone. My Norton 1k is now used to clean and refresh the Norton 4/8 and the diamond hones are used for lapping other hones. The 1K sandpaper is my best friend.

I avoid using a circular honing motion because I feel that it leads to metal fatigue and eventual microchipping.

The last suggestion is to stop using the HHT on the 4K. After I finish with the 1K sandpaper I then performm 50-100 laps on the 4K. Then move on to 8K for 15-30 laps. Check the edge and start whatever pyramid seems appropriate.

Finally, slow down your pace of honing.
This has helped me.


Hope this helps,

My 2 cts:
I have discovered that I have a tendency to go to higher grits too soon.
Because of that, I spend a disproportionally large amount of time on polishing stones to get it really sharp.
I have to learn to do a bit more time on the 4K and 1K to save me a lot of time later on.

I've made a couple more discoveries that have really trimmed my honing time down.

One is that pyramids work. (Duh.) The main problem I have is what I'd call a persistent wire edge. I used to do laps upon laps trying to get rid of a little bright line I could see on the edge--without using a microscope. I was reluctant to leave the 4K until I got rid of it. On some razors this seemed impossible.

I remembered reading something Lynn said one time about alternating between the 8K and 4K to remove a wire, so I gave it a try, doing 10-10 sequences. Lo and behold, the wire was gone in less than 15 minutes. Wow.

I've been able to get three razors shave-ready this weekend in about three hours total. Yippee!

For some reason I was convinced that going to the 8K was a waste until I had taken care of the wire on the 4K. Wrong.

The other is something that several honemeisters have been trying to drum into my head: using tape throughout the honing process.

Now I leave the electrical tape on until I finish on the 8K. I take it off right before the pasted strops. This has made a big difference, because I was having trouble trying to remove it after forming the bevel on the coarser grits.

These are both very basic things that I've read a hundred times and should have learned a long time ago.

Hope somebody else can learn from my mistakes...

Josh