Thread: Need some honing help please

So i have been restoring and working on razors for not to long and i just scored a nice set of hones! I have a norton 200/1000, 4000/8000 a 10k and a 12k, paddle strops and hanging strops. I have honed a few razors up and am very happy with the results, they shave great, pass a HHT and just work very well but i like perfection and i seam to somehow scratch my finish when i am honing? What am i doing wrong? Do i have to much surly on mt stone, is the tape that is coming off with each pass gumming up my stone and catching partials and scratching it? I really want to get good at this but i find myself cursing at the fact that i cant keep from scratching them! Im ok with the fact that some of my bevals have a wave in them from uneven spine where, that comes with something that is a 100 + years old but i cant take the scratching if a am to sell them to someone, it just is not right. I have watched a lot of videos and started with an old razor and then moved onto a restored one but i dont want to touch any of my nice W&B before i can keep from scratching them.
Thanks for any and all input, if there is every anyone in the so cal area that wants to get together and trade tips please let me know

Best regards.

It's really hard to say but from your post I'm assuming you know how to set a bevel (IF required) and can at least do a pyramid. If tape is coming off AND you're scratching the edge I'd guess at too much pressure, esp when finishing (the 12k). I find I really only have a problem with tape wearing a lot on the bevel setting stage.

What sort of 12k is it? My Shapton 16k is very aggressive (fine, but aggressive) and I need to ensure a light touch.

It also depends on the razor, of course the hardness of razors differ remarkably, my Swedish framebacks are MUCH harder than my Bengal, for instance.

At the same time, you actually seem to be happy with the edge (I place no truck with the HHT, I simply look at the edge and also use my shaving leg hair test, that's all really; maybe sometimes the TNT or TPT if I'm setting a bevel). If you get great shaves, why not leave it at that? There is no such thing as perfection. You can end up going backwards if you strive for it. One thing about honing I've learnt is CONTROL.

I hope this helps a little, though i'm no expert.

Carl

Thanks Carl, I am using a 12k Naniwa and that is not where i have the problem. Believe it or not the 1k and 4k is where most of it happens. You are correct that i am happy with the edge and that it passes my HHT and arm shave and i am ok with it but i still need to figure out what i am doing wrong because i know i would not be happy if i paid for a razor shave ready and it showed up scratched. when setting the bevel how often are you re-wetting your stone to clean all the grey water, how often are you wiping your blade and how long dose it take you to hone a razor from bevel to strop?

Thanks for your input,
Best regards.

Originally Posted by jdoc

Thanks Carl, I am using a 12k Naniwa and that is not where i have the problem. Believe it or not the 1k and 4k is where most of it happens. You are correct that i am happy with the edge and that it passes my HHT and arm shave and i am ok with it but i still need to figure out what i am doing wrong because i know i would not be happy if i paid for a razor shave ready and it showed up scratched. when setting the bevel how often are you re-wetting your stone to clean all the grey water, how often are you wiping your blade and how long dose it take you to hone a razor from bevel to strop?

Thanks for your input,
Best regards.

So I think what you are saying is that the scratches on the bevel from the bevel setting stage are remaining, which tells me you're not doing enough at the 4k and 8k stage.

I re-wet the hone constantly with a spray bottle. I don't use a lot of slurry at all, but I use a Nagura cleaning stone when required. Also, make sure the hone is properly cleaned and lapped, maybe you have some swarf remaining in the hone? I ensure I wipe and spray the razor often too, to remove any debris. I feel that it's possible to get some residue (particles off the 4k side) off the hone when going to the 8, so ensure i clean the razor each time i flip the hone (4/8).

As far as how long it takes, that's really difficult to answer, as all my razors are different and require a different plan. I only set a bevel when required, which has been for maybe five of my seven razors. Once the bevel has been set and I have a shave ready razor I maintain it on the Shapton 16k. In two or so years i haven't had to take any back to the bevel setting stage, nor even the 4k. On one or two I've done a few (20) touch up laps on the 8 and then 10 on the 16, but that's quite rare.

The 220 Norton will leave more scratches. The 1k will have a hard time taking these out. Using heavy pressure at any grit will leave more scratches than necessary. Im not sure a bevel will ever have zero scratches as even crox leaves them under a loupe.

What part of the razor are you scratching? Do you have pics?

Are you shaving with these, or selling them?

By the time you are done with 12k, the edge should be a mirror. 8k should be near mirror.

Scratches on the body of the blade shouldn't occur from honing. Maybe it's the cloth you are wiping the razor with. Rags can pick up small particles and scratch.

Michael

Mjsorkin, you are correct, the scratches are one the body of the razor not the bevel. The bevel looks fine and mirror when i am done and shaves like a dream but i have scratches on the body of the razor from the 1k maybe the wipe. Any input as to how to avoid this? To answer your other question, i am going to be selling them, up till now i was selling them un-honed but now i have stones and would like to sell some shave ready.

Thanks

Jdoc,

I use clean paper towels to wipe off the blades. A dirty rag can transfer grit. If the blade is covered in slurry them maybe it needs a rinse. Slurry contains abrasive particles.

Are you honing near your grinder, buffer, metal file? Little metal bits can fly a long way; and contaminate rags, hones, strops.

Which way are the scratches going? Long way makes it more likely from wiping the blade.

Michael

A simple way to check where the scratches are coming from is to hone a different blade, but when you wipe the blade, first rinse it and use a new piece of toilet paper or paper towel to wipe it with. That should eliminate the types of scratching you are referring to. If it does, then you have been rubbing the blade face with 1K and 4K particles, and that has been creating the scratching. If that doesn't eliminate it, I'm officially stumped.

Hone on synthetics without slurry, and rinse the stone and razor as recommended and wipe the razor dry with a microfiber towel.

Sounds like too much slurry, wet the stone just enough to keep a sheen of water on the stone.