Thread: Jnats for noobs

Mike,

I am not saying don't, or that synthetic stone are better than naturals.

I am saying for the novice learning to hone, an inexpensive, repeatable, known, reliable, practically bullet proof synthetic stone will teach a novice how to get a repeatable, shaveable edge.

From there go in any direction you wish.

We are not anti-natural stones, hell most of us would grind them up and inject them if we thought we could get a better edge. I have well over a hundred naturals and still collecting. Rare is the stone that can improve a 12k edge, though I have a few and they are fun to use. And as you say some of those edges are special.

I also have several synthetics from a variety of makers, a cabinet of paste and strops and film. There is no, one road to a keen edge.
Most novices have a simple agenda, make my razor shave. The quickest route is the interstate… a synthetic, by no means the only way.

Enjoy the road.

1. Choose a hard stone, and only use it for finishing, while you learn to sharpen your razor with synths.
2. Don't buy one of those 1400 dollar stones off ebay.
3. Expect that you're gonna buy some duds, while you look for the one or several that will fulfill the duties of a properly ordered synth progression.
4. Read everything Jim's written here. Honing Razors and Nihonkamisori: Updated. | Eastern Smooth: The Blog
5. Be sure and read the manuscript written by Iwasaki, and translated by Jim called Honing Razors and Nihonkamisori.
6. Recognize that if your slurry feels gritty, the stone is a paperweight...Get rid of it now...Preferably make it into dust, so that nobody else has to deal with it again.
7. Progressive slurry dilutions still work, but Japanese natural slurry will break down into finer and yet finer component parts while honing, unlike coticule stone.
8. Number 7 doesn't mean you won't have to dilute, because you are still dealing with steel particles, that IMO, oughta be cleared from the stone regularly. But it gets real hairy here because your stone is unique to itself. No other person can really advise you specifically, unless you let them use your stone for awhile.
9. After you've spent 3 hours setting your bevel, go ahead and set your bevel again a few more times, cause it's probably not done yet.
10. Number nine actually is universal.
11. Never give up.
12. Never give up.
13. Never, ever give up.
14. One stone, and several different slurry stones, is an option with jnats.
15. If it were me, I'd find out who Mainaman buys from, and buy from them also.
16. Aframestokyo has some nice looking pieces.

I tried harder to stick with the topic this time. Wow, that's way harder than I imagined.

If nothing else, read Iwasakis manuscript a few times.

And yes, you quoted me out of context, which completely changes the meaning. The primary point is that naturals are unique to themselves. But, yes, best of luck. Agreement or disagreement was never my intent.

Originally Posted by regularjoe

1. Choose a hard stone, and only use it for finishing, while you learn to sharpen your razor with synths.
2. Don't buy one of those 1400 dollar stones off ebay.
3. Expect that you're gonna buy some duds, while you look for the one or several that will fulfill the duties of a properly ordered synth progression.
4. Read everything Jim's written here. Honing Razors and Nihonkamisori: Updated. | Eastern Smooth: The Blog
5. Be sure and read the manuscript written by Iwasaki, and translated by Jim called Honing Razors and Nihonkamisori.
6. Recognize that if your slurry feels gritty, the stone is a paperweight...Get rid of it now...Preferably make it into dust, so that nobody else has to deal with it again.
7. Progressive slurry dilutions still work, but Japanese natural slurry will break down into finer and yet finer component parts while honing, unlike coticule stone.
8. Number 7 doesn't mean you won't have to dilute, because you are still dealing with steel particles, that IMO, oughta be cleared from the stone regularly. But it gets real hairy here because your stone is unique to itself. No other person can really advise you specifically, unless you let them use your stone for awhile.
9. After you've spent 3 hours setting your bevel, go ahead and set your bevel again a few more times, cause it's probably not done yet.
10. Number nine actually is universal.
11. Never give up.
12. Never give up.
13. Never, ever give up.
14. One stone, and several different slurry stones, is an option with jnats.
15. If it were me, I'd find out who Mainaman buys from, and buy from them also.
16. Aframestokyo has some nice looking pieces.

I tried harder to stick with the topic this time. Wow, that's way harder than I imagined.

If nothing else, read Iwasakis manuscript a few times.

And yes, you quoted me out of context, which completely changes the meaning. The primary point is that naturals are unique to themselves. But, yes, best of luck. Agreement or disagreement was never my intent.

Now THAT is a good read... thank you!

Yeah, the -quote-excerpts can be dangerous.. I try to be very careful with that. But the full quotes can get equally hairy.

Fortunately, it looks like I am heading in the right direction. I am sticking to my plan to use the synth for bevel set for sure and then up to 8k for now, and slowly introduce the naturals earlier and earlier until the 4/8 is out of the picture. No way I am ready to set bevels with the J-Nat or Coti. I don't have that much time.

The Shuobudan 100 seemed like a good place to start. Looking for a set of Nagura now and have watched Mainaman's Nagura Honing videos a gojillion times. And I've read all that I can find on Eastern Smooth.. good stuff.

Points 9 & 10.. should be sticky posts, each by them self.

The Iwasaki manuscript.. I haven't read it yet. I have a few days of and it will make good reading. Thank you. I've found a lot of mention to Hamono no Mikata(How to appreciate a blade)? Which I think is also by Iwasaki. I haven't come across the full transcript.. Is that the same document?

I have a few things I share with my daughter as she is maturing (she's still just 10 years old, but I figure by the time she is an adult she will have heard these snippets enough times that she might remember at one or two).

It's okay to struggle... but never, ever give up

Never a mistake, always a lesson.

I believe both of these thoughts are highly appropriate to share here.

Happy New Year to all of you!!

I don't know. I always recommend new guys become more than proficient with synthetics before traveling down the natural road, Especially Jnats. Unless your a Geologist. You need to walk, before you can run. Way too many variables with Jnats, Too many counterfeit stones, and don't get me started on the vendors. I could tell you stories that would steer you clear from Jnats forever, and I'm talking about reputable vendors. Just be careful. That's all I'm saying. Everyone's nice in email when they're trying to sell you something. Don't be Naïve. Make sure you can return the stone, and find out under what conditions. Many vendors will not take back a lapped stone. Also, unless your a dealer or a serious collector, A $3000.00 stone does not equal a $3000.00 shave. Know what your buying. Always use Paypal.

Unless you grew up with they guy your taking a chance. How many guys bought bad stones and didn't send them back because they thought it was them? or perhaps the razor? They set it aside, buy something else and forget about it. Before you know it, a year has gone buy and your stuck with a paperweight. Buying up Jnats like they're MRE's and we're on the verge of the Zombie apocalypse is not the way. I've seen guys on here buying 1/2 a dozen of them at a time. I'm not sure what that's about. You should take your time to learn your stone, especially a natural.

I use the Shapton GS series up to 16k, followed by the Suehiro 20k. It's an awesome shave, period. Just pick a set of stones, and master them. You'll be very, very happy with the results. I do own and use Jnats. I like my Nakayama Maruichi Asagi, and my Nakayama Maruka Asagi. The Shoubudani Asagi and Ozuku are fine too. My Maruka and Maruichi came from Japan from a trusted source. They love hard steel.

I agree with RegulaJoe's, # 15 above. Exercise Caution....And...(Edit....Sorry...!)

Happy New Year....

Originally Posted by regularjoe

1. Choose a hard stone, and only use it for finishing, while you learn to sharpen your razor with synths.
.....
6. Recognize that if your slurry feels gritty, the stone is a paperweight...Get rid of it now...Preferably make it into dust, so that nobody else has to deal with it again.

1. I wouldn't recommend a hard stone as a beginners stone, they can be very hard to use, a softer jnat can give a very nice edge without all the trouble.

6. Most people I've helped that gets "gritty" slurry just don't take the time to raise it slowly, on a hard stone it can take several minutes
and they can be picky when it comes to tomo naguras, some combinations just don't work.
Even with a stone I know and have used for years it happens I get something "bad" in the slurry, rinse and repeat.
If you still feel it's a "paperweight" send me a PM, lots off papers flying around here when the cats are racing around!

Good for you mike! like u I'm scared of those Jnats.. Too many variables for me... Bill came to my house not to long ago with a crate of hones.. I'm learning on what I have.. All synthetics.. So I tell bill I really love the feel of a jnat finish there is nothing like it in my opinion.. And I have had pro honers finish my razors on all sort of hones.. So bill is watching me everything going great get to my Naniwa 12 k bill says everything look great.. So I say now what.. He breaks out this suehiro 20 k says try this .. I goto work .. Next day I shave I was taking back best shave ever.. Guess what I'm a simple guy loved the shave figured out how to use it, yes one razor no not a pro yet but i decided that's the path I'm taking .. Point of this is whatever path u take I hope u find what works the best and most comfortable for you..


Happy new yr to you and your family.. Excuse the typos iPad..