Thread: Jnats for noobs

Hello I was thinking a post like this may help some guys have some guidance as to what to start out with if they want to start using Jnats. I know theres a uniqueness on all of them but they should have similar enough characteristics to help some one out. I would recommend buying from a seller who has a reputation and who offers at least an exchange if it doesn't work out for you. Anyway my picks are shuobodani for ease of use and being capable of a very keen edge quickly, and an ozaiki suita for being versatile enough to give you a coti like edge up to Escher+ sharpness. Im taking a chance on the post as some may not like my picks, but this may be useful and give guidance to some folks out there. Oh and an asano nagura set definitely. What say you? Thanks.

I think noobs should realise that a Jnat is not a miracle hone. It only works on a really keen edge coming off a polishing hone in the 8-12K range.

Thats one way of using them, although a nagura setup is very effective also.

Originally Posted by bill3152

... I would recommend buying from a seller who has a reputation and who offers at least an exchange if it doesn't work out for you...

Ok for reputation, but the seller will not take it back after you used it long enough to realize that ...

I would recommend:
Be aware that it takes longer than with any other coticule or escher stone
Be aware that not every jnat is for every steel
Do not start with extra hard stone
and ...
Relax, it's a long and expensive journey
Keep your nani12k at hand

Jnats for noobs?
The stone has to be lvl 4.5-5 at most, too hard stones can be tricky to use so not for noobs.
As far as mine of origin, that is not important as long as the stone is truly for razor.
Naguras are a good thing to try, they are not too expensive except Koma (which is not really necessary)
Good tomonagura is also nice to have.

The names of mines & other terms are no guarantee of quality or consistency. They are not company/model/type names of industrially produced products, like cars or computers.

When buying Jnats you need an honest & knowledgeable seller with a return policy. Of course you should also be able to determine the stone's suitability in a reasonable time for a return. It can take time to learn the versatility of a Jnat but it's easy to tell if the stone improves your 8 or 12k stone.
Best not to buy a Ferrari till you know how to drive.

Yes sir you are right, but they have to start somewhere! I wouldn't suggest a Jnat or other natural for someone who doesn't know how to hone, unless their next door neighbor is proficient or someone would be willing to work with them for a bit. I think its a great hobby and some people are afraid to try one. Its work but its a great way to hone a razor. Just trying to get the word out that its not mystical and anyone with basic honing skills can be proficient in time. I appreciate the responses here.

It is great that you have found natural Jnat stones that work for you. But I would not recommend any naturals for anyone learning to hone. There are enough challenges honing vintage razors with known/proven synthetic stone without adding the unknown variables of a natural stone.

One has only to look at the raft of post from novice honers with Coticules and their frustrations. Just purchasing a Jnat can be a confusing, confounding and costly let alone learning to use the stone and squeak out the maximum performance.

Most novice honers are also novice shavers and even if they got lucky and were able to obtain a shaveable edge, it is questionable if they could recognize, appreciate and maintain it.

As has been said many times, learn to shave, learn to maintain, learn to touch up, then learn to hone… on synthetics. Then learn to restore challenging Vintage razors, then open up your wallet to the naturals. It is rare that most will find an edge better than a 12K Super Stone.

I am always amuses by the endless honing problems of novice honers, 90 percent of which are the lack of a set bevel and the ability to recognize so.

In short I would not recommend a Jnat or any natural hone to a novice honer.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

...Most novice honers are also novice shavers and even if they got lucky and were able to obtain a shaveable edge, it is questionable if they could recognize, appreciate and maintain it.

As has been said many times, learn to shave, learn to maintain, learn to touch up, then learn to hone… on synthetics. Then learn to restore challenging Vintage razors, then open up your wallet to the naturals. It is rare that most will find an edge better than a 12K Super Stone.

I respectfully disagree in part.. If you said 'Many novice honers are also novice shaver...' I would feel better. I know I prefer the edge from a natural stone over the crispier, often too sharp feeling from the high grit synths. And the whole discussion of which is 'better' is a deep dive. 'Better' comes down to how it feels.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

I am always amuses by the endless honing problems of novice honers, 90 percent of which are the lack of a set bevel and the ability to recognize so.

I absolutely agree with the importance of the bevel set, as well as how elusive it can be. Or possibly better said, how impatient a new honer can be when seeking a bevel evenly set across the blade. It's easy to want to force a bevel to pass tests so you can move on to the more glamorous stones.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

In short I would not recommend a Jnat or any natural hone to a novice honer.

Well, I can only speak for myself... There are no joys in the synthetic stones. I've got them. I don't like them. Others may deem them easiest, best, hard to beat.. I get it. Easiest isn't always the best way to go. I don't like easy. Maybe if you're honing a gojillion razors a day and need to be efficient in pushing volume..then it's a utilitarian decision. And I'll agree, there are many who like that crisp scalpel sharp, shiny edge from a 16k. But otherwise I feel you go with what gives you the most enjoyment. I am willing to take the long road. There is something purely romantic about the natural stones. The history. The feel in your hand. The lack of stands, diamond plates, tubs of water... The smell of the natural stone and it's slurry. The drip of water from your fingertips for dilution. The mellow edge that comes off these stones. All are reasons to use the natural stones. I'm sure I missed a bunch.

Yes, trust that I know it's harder to learn. I have shouting matches with my coti. And, I swear I hear the Norton chuckling at me. I don't yell at the Zulu because it's big.. and bad ass. The J-Nat sits quietly in it's box.. silent like a ninja. It scares me. But I'll learn all of them in time.

Frankly, I don't see the synthetic stones as easier. They are boring to me. Mathematical. Too tightly systematized for me. If my honing had to be solely on synthetics.. I wouldn't. I would send them out rather than hone solely on synthetics. There is no romance. They work perfectly well, but scream the chants of our mechanized, disposable world. No charm.

My DE shaves are FAR closer, faster and, dare I say better, than my straight shaves. That's not to say my straight shaves aren't BBS smooth they are. They just aren't as easy as the DE. Easy is, to me, boring. Thee is a place for easy, but only occasionally for me. There is romance and challenge in the straight shave that is absent in the DE shave.

When I learned to drive I did it on a manual trans. That added a whole lot of variables that might be extraneous and confusing for today's new drivers with automatics or paddle shifters. But that was how we did it. There are countless generations that had nothing but natural stones to learn on. It's how they did it.

So... to the OP.. I hope this thread grows over time to include thoughts on mastering the J-Nat. No question, it is complex and loaded with challenges.

Most of all, I hope this thread sprouts encouragement.

Originally Posted by MikekiM

My DE shaves are FAR closer, faster and, dare I say better, than my straight shaves. That's not to say my straight shaves aren't BBS smooth they are. They just aren't as easy as the DE. Easy is, to me, boring. Thee is a place for easy, but only occasionally for me. There is romance and challenge in the straight shave that is absent in the DE shave.

In all honesty i agree 100% with Euclid on this topic, i just hate to see a new honer spend a small fortune on a j-nat when they have no sense on how to set a bevel or what a shave ready edge feel like.

And also not to "rain on your parade" but if your DE shaves are closer then your straights, then either your edges or technique are not up to par. Just recently was reading a thread about this and pretty much all experienced shavers totally agreed that the straight was much closer then the DE and its my experience as well.