Thread: Working With The Zulu Grey.

Let me open this post by paraphrasing and adding to a quote by Aristoteles.
"The more I think I know, the more I know I know nothing". This is so true for me on the topic of honing, particularly honing with naturals.

My best Zulu edges come from an edge that is good after the 16k Shapton glass, then I hit the Zulu with water only (most of the times) or light slury (one or two light figure eight with a well worn dmt325 or an Atoma 1200) then diluting to water in ~60~80 strokes and continue on water only or honing smith solution for another ~80 more strokes on my smooth side of the stone. Some times, if the blade shaved good after the 16k Shapton and paste regiment, I take it to the Zulu on the smooth side of my stone with water first, then honing smith solution. This usually results in a bit more sharpness from the 16k and gain smoothness.

I have two lapped sides to my Zulu. One is finished on the 1200 Atoma, which is quicker and straighter, but as smooth as the well worn DMT325 I used to use. The other is dry sanded (after the finished lapping with the Atoma 1200) with 1500 wet/dry sand paper. Which gives a slicker and shinier surface than the other side (1200) when wet.

I find the edge out of the 16k, very sharp, but a bit harsh. I have achieved outstanding edges from the 16k follow by paste (CrOx and CBN), but find that this also is not always consistent in all the edges I do with this method. IMO the Zulu adds that feel of "natural" where the edge is sharp and smooth to the point that the irritation is very little or non existent on my face. It doesn't add the buttery feel of the turis (the only other naturals finisher I have), but IMHO, as sharp if not sometimes sharper than with the yellow green turi.

Lately (6 month or so) I have been experimenting with going from a good 8k edge to the Zulu. And after several methods, hits and miss, I have settle on the most consistent method for me at this time. Which is, taking the 8k edge to a water only refresh Zulu surface with an Atoma 400 (leaves a "rougher" surface than with the 1200 Atoma). Doing about 60 to 80 laps, then refreshing the surface with an Atoma 1200 and doing another water only 60-80 lapse on that. I rinse as I see swarf/slury (not sure) building in the water (happens more with the 400 surface. Then I go to the smooth side with water or smith honing solution and doing weight of the blade strokes for another 80.

I also like after the stone to do 4-6 strokes (no more than that) on .5 CrOx to really take the edge to the next level. IMO it doesn't distract from the Zulu edge, but enhance it. If I loose sharpness because of the CrOx, then I go back to the "smoother" side of the Zulu and do another 40-60 strokes. This sometimes results in a better edge than I started with, before going to the pastes.

I also feel that I use more "pressure" on the edge that I would on a the 16k Shapton glass or a Turi, at least at the beginning of the honing on the "less smooth" side, and then going weight of the blade as I finish the strokes. It's like I try to slice a very thin piece of the stone, making sure that water pushes all along the edge. If water is not pushing evenly with the little pressure (read "NOT setting bevel" pressure) then I strop, first 7-8 on CrOx then hard wool felt (after rinsing and drying blade between the CrOx and felt) then I try again on the stone.

Like I said, the 16k then Zulu, is my best and most consistent method. If you only have an 8k synthetic or natural (coti), then the three surface approach is my second best. If you don't have a rougher lapping plate than a well worn DMT 325 and or an Atoma 1200, then I would just refresh the surface at least one time in the middle of the honing (a la Hirlau) and/or use slury (always light).

A note on water, I use more water in the "less smooth"/"rougher" surface than I use on the smooth. When I'm finishing the last 20-40 strokes, they are done on a "no poodle" stone. The edge pushes water but I only see it on the very edge, not ahead of the edge like on the Shapton glass, and only weight of the blade. I waited one time for the stone to dry and do another ~10 strokes on a dry stone. The edge was on of the best I had out of an 8k edge.

By no means I think this are the only methods. I have tried pyramid with the Shapton glass 16k and the Zulu (1:20, one stroke on the Shapton to 20 on the Zulu) and that have worked. Also tried CBN spray (light) with water on the Zulu and that worked very well too. One stone method out of the 1k with diluting slurry, and that gave me a smooth shave ready razor but not as sharp as an 8k (if I remember correctly). I read, this one stone method have worked for other, but I think it requires a lot of finesse as to how fast or slow to dilute the slury. One of my favorite edges out of the Zulu, is to use turi slury on the Zulu (again, light) to finished an edge. The turi is "softer" (they are both hard) and gives the slury with ease by just rubbing the turi over the Zulu.

I'm also curious as other peoples method. Reading the posts, it seems most people get the best edge out of a Nani 12k or Shapton glass 16k follow by the Zulu.

Hope this can help someone! Double O

Curious if any of you gents have tried a full Nagura progression on the Zulu? I'll agree the Zulu is an extremely hard stone and prefers slurry. I've temporarily put aside my ZG, Coti & synthetics to learn J-Nats and thus far, am doing well. Can't help but wonder if a progression through Koma and Tomo might yield good results. I'll likely give it a go, but would be interested in any experience you gents might have had..

Originally Posted by MikekiM

Curious if any of you gents have tried a full Nagura progression on the Zulu? I'll agree the Zulu is an extremely hard stone and prefers slurry. I've temporarily put aside my ZG, Coti & synthetics to learn J-Nats and thus far, am doing well. Can't help but wonder if a progression through Koma and Tomo might yield good results. I'll likely give it a go, but would be interested in any experience you gents might have had..

I been wanting to do this, however haven't bought any naguras (no j-nat). I think it will work. I ask Stephan (mainam), he played with the Zulu some and have played with J-Nats. And he said it would be slow. Slow, but with the results I had with the CBN spray, I'm confident it will work!

Hope to hear from you. Maybe that will get me to buy some naguras and try it myself. Double O

I bought a ZG a couple of years ago when Michael first started talking them up and experimented with various slurries as discussed. I had success with a sort of "one stone" method starting with a fairly heavy coticule slurry, which cut about as fast as a 1-3K synthetic, and diluted that in half to about 4-5K speed. I then tried a variety of slurries, settling on a tsushima or mikawa botan slurry, followed by a hard tomonagura slurry. A final polish on a very light ZG slurry and then on dish soap completed the process.

I've also spent too much on koma nagura and, IMO, they have nothing to offer. I know that some will swear that a koma used betweem mejiro and tomo improves the edge but that was not the case in my experiments.

In short, the ZG can be used just like any other hard base stone but is quite slow by itself.

rs,
Tack

Originally Posted by Tack

I bought a ZG a couple of years ago when Michael first started talking them up and experimented with various slurries as discussed. I had success with a sort of "one stone" method starting with a fairly heavy coticule slurry, which cut about as fast as a 1-3K synthetic, and diluted that in half to about 4-5K speed. I then tried a variety of slurries, settling on a tsushima or mikawa botan slurry, followed by a hard tomonagura slurry. A final polish on a very light ZG slurry and then on dish soap completed the process.

I've also spent too much on koma nagura and, IMO, they have nothing to offer. I know that some will swear that a koma used betweem mejiro and tomo improves the edge but that was not the case in my experiments.

In short, the ZG can be used just like any other hard base stone but is quite slow by itself.

rs,
Tack

Thanks...the idea of a one stone solution makes me warm and fuzzy..and the slab of African stone has been sitting in its box for a while. I'm going to try it this weekend.

Coti, diluted coti, Botan, Tomo, ZG and then soapy water. Interesting progression. The coti cut faster than Botan? I wouldn't have thought to try that. I just picked up a Koma and haven't formed an opinion on it yet.

Well I got my ZG yesterday. I took a Duck of mine that was refusing to get in line with the rest. This thing took me back into different levels of my progression 3 times before I started to get a decent shave out of it and it still didn't feel right. So after Norton 1/4/8 and a nani 12k I decided it was going to be my ZG experiment. It was suggested that if I used the DMT 1200 slurry I would be taking it back to the 8 or 10 k level and I figured that may be just what this Duck needed. I started with a heavy slurry and diluted to just water. I didn't count the laps but definitely over a 100. I was concentrating on the feel of the blade on the stone with ever so light strokes. It seemed to smooth out rather quickly but I just enjoyed the trips back and fourth so much I kept going. Before the final 50 or so laps I stopped and washed the ZG off and used it wet with no pooled water. My usual 25 laps on old linen and 80 on horse hide and it was ready to test this morning. It worked. I bought my ZG to top off my progression and I think it is going to do just that. This Duck had me doubting myself for awhile but the ZG has brought my confidence back. I now know I can take a razor that is just not at it's full potential and put it to the ZG and get it in line. I spent a long time shaving off the 8k and just moved up to a 12k in the last few months. And while I felt the difference using the 12k it left me thinking it was sharper but maybe a little rough and not mellowing out until it was shaved and stropped about 5 or 6 times. Tonight I took another Duck that was finished on a ZG over a year ago and used a ZG slurry and diluted to clear water in about a 100 laps. I did another that was working perfect and went about 100 laps with just water. If the results are any different than what I expect I will report back. After reading all the ways you guys have used different types of slurry I am sure I have a great new stone that will serve me well for years. I may have to pick up some new slurry stones for Sheffield blades and general experimenting but I think I have topped off my rotation with all the hones I need to get from point A to point B. I am a pretty basic guy with no desire to catch the HAD thing :<0)

Zulu + full Asano Nagura progression...

I would consider it a win.

I have a vintage J.Champlain 5/8 full hollow that was my father's.. She will never win a beauty contest but she's a decent shaver even with the pitting and spine wear. One layer of tape which was a mistake as believe the bevel was set with no tape. I approached this halfheartedly with very low expectations..

Took it through the full J-Nat progression.

• Botan x 2 slurries
• Tenjou
• Mejiro
• Koma
• Kiiata Tomonagura, x 2.. one slurry until it just started to turn color, refreshed it and then diluted the second slurry about three or four times until it broke down and thinned
• then just water... not pooled, just wet. Did like a gojillion strokes
• Three or four strokes on pasted linen and another gojillion on Tony Miller Horsehide.

Though I consider the controversial HHT to border on parlor tricks (YMMV) and it tells me nothing more than that the edge isn't going to suck, the edge did pass... silent drop of a badger bristle. The truth is in the shave test. This morning I paired it with Bath House Spanish Fig & Nutmeg for an ice water shave that was 95% BBS.

The Zulu was, as expected, very slow. I am sure I moved forward sooner than I should have, but the results are quite promising. I am not sure if I prefer the larger 8x3 stone over my smaller 6x2 J-Nat, but the edge is what it's about and this one was quite smooth and comfortable. Without tape, and more attention to my advance signals, I am confident the Zulu can work just fine when mixed with the Nagura progression.

Thanks Double O, you sovled the Zulu riddle for me. I have been messing around with my Zulu for about a year and just could not get it to finish like I wanted. After reading your last post, I finished a couple of my razors on the Shapton 16K and then took them to the Zulu for about 150 light X strokes with water. My honing has always produced very sharp razors, but the Zulu treatment game them a smooth comfortable character that I had not previously experienced. I have really come to like the Zulu .

Thanks again!
John

Hirlau and Double0757, your results really mirror mine. I've not used my stone in a while as I went back to Escher and then picked up a G20 not too long ago and am still learning it.

My experience is that the ZG worked best after a synthetic finisher like the 16K. I found that the stone worked best if you had enough water on it to dissipate so that the last 20-30 out of say 100 strokes were just a damp stone. This is what I have found from most naturals though, if the last 1/3-1/4 of the strokes are on a damp to dry stone the results are typically better. This is also where my strokes are feather-lite too.

I have not tried any of the fancy Japanese nagura's, but one thing that I found to work better than ZG slurry was thuringian slurry. My thoughts were "this is a very hard stone, I don't think the slurry would break down well on my delicate edge". I don't use anything but a light slurry, ever. I have a good sized blue/green thuringian that comes in around the 10K mark that is great for a the ZG. If I am going to do 100x on a normal German blade, I will do half with slurry and the last half on just water. The thuringian slurry we all know will break down nicely. I've also honed on thuringian slurry to a dry hone and the edge was excellent, this was my SRP limited edition razor. I noted this, however havent repeated it and I should...

A personal note is that Double O and I seem to mirror one another on honing, so of course I will agree with him

Smiths honing solution works well on Charnley Forest, NOT the ZG. ZG is slow on water, twice as slow on honing solution.

Originally Posted by shooter74743

Smiths honing solution works well on Charnley Forest, NOT the ZG. ZG is slow on water, twice as slow on honing solution.

OK. So I tried this on a Revisor that needed a touch-up:
about 40 laps on the ZG with light slurry
about 40 laps with a little water
then about 40 laps with a light coat of Smith's
and finally 10 X strokes on a "damp only" surface.

I rinsed the ZG after each stage, and lightly lapped the stone on a DMT 325 before the damp only stage.

That seems to be the best result so far. I think you're on to something!