Thread: Tweaking the Edge with Tape

Here’s an idea, try it… if it works for you, great…

If it doesn’t, don’t do it.

The Tape, not the Pie… Oh hell, try the pie too.

Never met a pie I spit out.

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I'm very curious about the metallurgy (or whatever you call it) involved here...
Steel isn't entirely plastic - at some level abrading it causes it to chip away and the particles (carbides?) can only go down to so small of a size... If the smallest steel bit that can break off is smaller than the microbevel then it makes sense (in my head) that if one were delicate enough in knocking those overhanging particles off the edge, it would be possible to refine an edge beyond what flat honing accomplishes.
On the other hand, there are effects from stropping and the steel partocles may be much smaller than we're talking about here...

Obviously I don't know a lot about this, but I'm curious about what happens at the micro level.

Originally Posted by HNSB

I'm very curious about the metallurgy (or whatever you call it) involved here...
Steel isn't entirely plastic - at some level abrading it causes it to chip away and the particles (carbides?) can only go down to so small of a size... If the smallest steel bit that can break off is smaller than the microbevel then it makes sense (in my head) that if one were delicate enough in knocking those overhanging particles off the edge, it would be possible to refine an edge beyond what flat honing accomplishes.
On the other hand, there are effects from stropping and the steel partocles may be much smaller than we're talking about here...

Obviously I don't know a lot about this, but I'm curious about what happens at the micro level.

Essentially we are talking about particles that go beyond visibility under conventional microscopes. Theoretically you can abrade steel down at the molecular level with the appropriate application of energy, or in this case resistance. Once you get down to the atomic level it would be a matter of overcoming the bonds of the compound chains by using something as big or smaller with appropriate force. Hence the micron measurements in pastes and media. The smaller you get in abrasive force, the smaller the compounded matter you can remove. You could remove metal toward the apex, theoretically, infinitely if you were able to remove metal down to the sub atomic level. This would require a particle accelerator, but I think you run the risk of over honing....

Seriously though, at a point there is just overkill. I think Tim's whole point here was that he is showing proof of what he does in his honing process and that there is a limit to what the apex of an edge is capable of handing before it starts to effect the bevel itself, which as I recall, is what he tries to avoid. There are limitations to how flat you can get. Eventually the honing surface and the apex would reach a limit to how much their relationship can narrow. Tim's method seems to gently adjust for that margin and squeak a little more effort at the apex before deteriorating it.

I've been scratching my head about this thread, maybe I have taken the context wrong. I have enough experience honing to converse with anyone as I have tried quite a bit of stones, methods, and so on. It all comes down to "does it shave well" doesn't it? I've played around with micro-bevels myself & at first I liked them...until it came to touching up the blade & then you have to ask yourself if you did a micro-bevel or not. I have several razors in my rotation, so I can't remember which I honed which way...this is why I don't bother with them unless I come across a very chippy razor.

Now, lets move forward to this thread. A man who is well known for his blades and from what I have heard & read even knows how to hone a bit, brings up something that HE is doing and shares it with supportive documentation. A good word for his method is a "nano-bevel". His method, on a microscopic level, strongly resembles the strongest cutting edge ever...the samurai sword in my mind. I can easily see, with my experience, that this method WILL WORK. There is nobody on this forum that prove otherwise as I am sure we will hear a shave report from Birnando & I bet it will be positive...and he's no rookie at shaving either.

What I am getting at is that I hone using a method that I believe is best, Lynn, Kelly, Glenn, and Joe Schmuckatelly all hone differently...but the end it's all the same: Does it shave comfortable and well? If it does, WHO CARES how the razor got there as the method obviously works. Try different methods once and a while, all it will do is improve your knowledge base...don't get stuck in a rut.

No, I don't use tape on my own razors, no I don't use micro or nano bevels, and Pecan Pie is THE best pie made...if you don't agree, go lick a toad...with ice cream of coarse.

Originally Posted by shooter74743

There is nobody on this forum that prove otherwise as I am sure we will hear a shave report from Birnando & I bet it will be positive...and he's no rookie at shaving either.

Seems to me that that's all there is to it, for me anyways
I will report back after I have given it a few shaves.

I started reading this thread to learn another approach to honing, now I am just hungry for some pie without the tape!! You guy are hilarious!! Made my day!!

Originally Posted by Sic4531

Essentially we are talking about particles that go beyond visibility under conventional microscopes. Theoretically you can abrade steel down at the molecular level with the appropriate application of energy, or in this case resistance. Once you get down to the atomic level it would be a matter of overcoming the bonds of the compound chains by using something as big or smaller with appropriate force. Hence the micron measurements in pastes and media. The smaller you get in abrasive force, the smaller the compounded matter you can remove. You could remove metal toward the apex, theoretically, infinitely if you were able to remove metal down to the sub atomic level. This would require a particle accelerator, but I think you run the risk of over honing....

Seriously though, at a point there is just overkill. I think Tim's whole point here was that he is showing proof of what he does in his honing process and that there is a limit to what the apex of an edge is capable of handing before it starts to effect the bevel itself, which as I recall, is what he tries to avoid. There are limitations to how flat you can get. Eventually the honing surface and the apex would reach a limit to how much their relationship can narrow. Tim's method seems to gently adjust for that margin and squeak a little more effort at the apex before deteriorating it.

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Originally Posted by Hirlau

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Wow! Finally a real picture of Hirlau!

Streaking was popular in the late 70"s.