Thread: Honing mysticism

This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but there are often times I feel an inflated sense of mysticism is used when talking about hones/honing. I am in no way a honing expert or professional, but I would call my edges competitive. I find this mysticism usually circles discussions about natural hones and how they are difficult to learn and a methodology, generally, is useless. I think if naturals were all so starkly different they would never survive as a viable product. Certainly there are nuanced differences, but as a whole certain categories operate the same. Perhaps I have been lucky with my natural stones and should purchase a lotto ticket tomorrow. The only natural I bought and had issues with was the Zulu due to lack of research and strokes. I feel this attitude intimidates newish honers, which it intimidated me for sure even a few months ago buying my first Jnat. I was able to get a great edge off that stone the first time I used it and no it wasn't the best possible edge, but it certainly was better than most. Gssixgun has a blog post about the Nth degree of honing, which I don't think everyone is always shooting for their first time on a stone. I think Gssixgun brings up great points and it is a good read for honing commitment. I think if your mechanics are good and you understand the basic principles of each honing media you will be successful on attempt one... Will it be that Nth degree? Heavens no, but it will still be a pretty awesome start. These natural stones are awesome and at times mysterious, but not so much you can't get your foot in the door pretty easily.

I don't think it's mystical , just interesting the differences, but I don't hone , so that's all I can say ,, I do love to read this section though I have found that I can get the best edges by just sending them to Glen , what I find mystical is a man who just starts and hasn't even shaved that wants to buy the naturals! But to each his own ,, How do you like your Jnats edge compared to the other stones you have tried ? Tc

Natural stones are a matter of experience. part of the reason that people make what sounds like mysticism is because they have experience with particular hones (and results improve with experience).

It also takes experience to know when a hone is a lost cause, or when what seems like a difficult hone has potential to become something special.

But there's nothing mystical about it, it's the subtlety of experience that's accessible with anyone who has the wallet and time to gain it.

The rewarding part of natural hones is that you can get to a point with some where buying a gok-20 is a waste of money (I just personally proved that myself). But it's unlikely that an initial user of natural hones will agree with that because the results from the gok are accessible to anyone who can do an x stroke. Some natural stones are pretty easy (like a y/g escher) and some things, like vintage japanese hones or jasper have a lot more dimension but take some time to figure out.

There was a time that I didn't think natural hones could deliver the kind of edge that something like a gok-20 delivers, but I no longer believe that now. I had to depart the X stroke and gain some experience, and also find razors that agree with the natural stones.

Funny you're saying that, I was about to talk about my hones.

The first one is a "BrimStone", natural hone straigth from Gehena, consecrated by the current Grand Master of the Sacred Order of the Practicians of Kabbalistic Magic. Great stone for any blade that must draw blood.

The second one was mined on the Golgotha, very fine lice stone, thrice consecrated by a Fransiscan monk on the eve of easter. Immediate healing factor, very nice for a razor blade, the cuts won't stay.

Third stone was taken directly from the stone where Excalibur was, according to legend, firmly set. Pros : very scary sharp blade, useful against faes and celtic myths related creatures. Cons : very hard to handle, the blade tends to stay firmly stuck to it.

The way I read this thread, Whatever works for an individual is a good hone. Starting with a simple well known hone gives the best chance of good information and answers to questions posted. The individual moves onward from there. Price points are important after that to an average user.

Mysticism? Getting into the almost mindless Zen of honing blades? Well.....
Ozone Rangers may apply!
~Richard
PS. I do enjoy honing!

Nothing mystical about it. Tons of guys are shaving off their edges and learning every time they deviate.
After all, we are simply sharpening a blade and polishing it to get a good, comfortable shave. JMO

'Love it that you mention the naked emperor. 'Have several naturals & they have their charm, but the language used to describe their mystical qualities just leaves me cold. 'Read up on Jnats for months. 'Couldn't tell you a dang thing about them at the end of it, other than we have alot of voodoo language surrounding them. My one jnat remains my best finisher, but others have pet rocks of their own. I'm in favor of whatever rock works for you. period. The object is to enjoy your shaves. If a cinder block makes that happen - that's the rock for you. Its easy to lose track of the shave when waxing romantic about our pet rocks. 'Hope whatever method you use - you enjoy your shaves. That's where its at.

I would disagree about the coti producing a subpar edge. If that were the case they would have not had such an allure in the barber world. They don't produce the ultimate edge ever but for sure a DFS edge to most and to some guys the "best" edge ever. I also think using the dilucot system makes it easy to use, though very time consuming until you learn your personal rock. I have never tried Arkansas stones and probably will eventually, but I'm back logged on other finishers. I think initially synthetics are best for beginners due to consistency and being able to focus solely on technique. After you nail that technique I think you can be successful on almost any stones assuming it's up to snuff. One thing that changed my honing world was learning to hand hone. It makes small stones a breeze and keeping slurry where you want it by tilting the stone as you hone is awesome. If you don't know how to hone in hand learn!

Originally Posted by aa1192

I would disagree about the coti producing a subpar edge. If that were the case they would have not had such an allure in the barber world. They don't produce the ultimate edge ever but for sure a DFS edge to most and to some guys the "best" edge ever. I also think using the dilucot system makes it easy to use, though very time consuming until you learn your personal rock. I have never tried Arkansas stones and probably will eventually, but I'm back logged on other finishers. I think initially synthetics are best for beginners due to consistency and being able to focus solely on technique. After you nail that technique I think you can be successful on almost any stones assuming it's up to snuff. One thing that changed my honing world was learning to hand hone. It makes small stones a breeze and keeping slurry where you want it by tilting the stone as you hone is awesome. If you don't know how to hone in hand learn!

I'm curious as to whether the old barbers used a coticule shy of the edge like a barber hone is used, because I have seen people quote old literature or old barbers who suggest that the coti should be worked sparingly when maintaining a razors so as not to ruin the edge. I'd agree with that. What I'd like to see more discussion of on these forums is establishing a shaving edge that is maintained with a linen (a real one, like a vintage one) and where the thickness of the edge is kept up with a maintaining stone but never honed off like we tend to ascribe to around here.

IME, the edge that is maintained thus (the learning curve to do that is a bit high for a beginner, to have the touch to know when you've worked enough but not too much) is a bit better than the edge that comes fresh off of stones and powder. It's just as sharp as a powder edge, but smoother.

Otherwise, though, I couldn't put coticules in the same class (generally) as the more consistent stones. Just my personal opinion. It is too hard to look at them and tell whether they're coarse or fine, and the ones that aren't that fine just really don't deliver that good of an edge without stopping short of the edge itself (with the edge thinning technique, any decent stone can be used, doesn't have to be a great one - but at some point the edge still needs to be established first).

I am lost, Dave! Make a video!