Thread: Tape

Hi,

I have developed a habit of taping spines when honing.
If a razor is once honed with tape, I suppose it has to be taped with every touchup you do on a coticule or pasted paddle?

I Just want to be sure.

Without putting words in people's mouths, I think Randy tapes, then polishes without tape. He is a honemeister.

I am currently NOT taping even on 1K - to preserve the original angle as much as I can. Not sure if this is correct... My thinking, however, is that if you really want to get the edge - it would make most sense to do no tape, then tape to polish (so that the edge has more exposure to the finishing material). Or - if you tape the spine - then double the tape for final touches (not remove it)

I am just throwing things out here and would not be embarrassed or surprised to hear I am wrong so let's hear what you think

Cheers
Ivo

For the record - despite what I think, lately I just use no tape whatsoever

I haven't tried it yet, but I think taping after honing will break off the edge since it is way to thin to handle the stresses. you'd get a double bevel, though I don't know how bad it would be. Perhaps it wouldn't matter.

My primary reason for taping the spine is that I don't want to damage other people's razors.
Going to the 1K (or even the 4K or 8) will leave a polished line on the side of the spine, which I don't like too much.

The problem with polising without tape (if you used it during honing) is that I think the edge does not touch the paddle or coticule at all, because of the difference in angle.

But that is just what I think, so that's why I asked.

Hm, I remember that I even used tape all the way to stropping on plain leather when I used tape on the spine for honing... Had good results, iirc.

I have tried tape to hone, then off for 20 laps or so on coticule - have to say this worked for me, too. Theoretically I agree that the edge would contact the hone in a different way - nevertheless, it does work, in my experience.

Very interesting if 'no tape hone / tape polish' or 'tape hone / double tape polish' approaches will break the edge - I don't think so, and was mostly thinking of the addition for the linen and stropping, which I'm thinking will be ok. I also think CrO2 should work fine... No idea about stones, though - such as Belgians, Eschers, etc.

Come to think about this I have a blade to de-chip and hone - maybe I can try this tonight and shave experience afterwards.

Cheers
Ivo

Hello all, I am taking a break from buliding my propane forge and all that stuff. Now to the topic....

I have not noticed any ill effect from leaving the tape on for the entire honing process including the pasted strop nor any when I remove the tape after the 8k or finishing stone (coticule, escher, 12K etc).

I have not tried adding additional tape yet. What that would do is create a micro-bevel. The technique is used by some woodworkers on their plane blades as an example. They have a honing guide made by Veritas that has the increased angle adjustment built in. If anyone is trying this then by all means let us know what you experience!

Bill Ellis was essentially doing this by varying the amount of pressure as he honed. In some ways we are already doing this when we start out using some pressure, 1-2 lbs, and then lightening up later but to s smaller degree.


Just my two cents,

There really is no reason to tape a spine when honing unless you are protecting a spine with a pattern like Damascus or have a lot of steel to remove as with a chip in the edge. The angle of the edge is consistent with the shape of the razor and all the tape does is create a different bevel angle. If you leave it on throughout the honing then you end up with a single edge unless you created a double bevel. So long as the edge is consistent, you should then be able to strop and shave.

Have fun.

Lynn

What would you use to tape the spine with? I am guessing something like electrical taping or something similar. This would increase the cutting angle, so on removing it you would reduce the angle, surely create a double bevel.

Excuse me for speaking out of turn - I am a total noob and have yet to even hone my first blade properly - but I have put some thought to this from a practical point of view.

If some pressure is used on the 1000 to set a bevel, the blade would also flex slightly - especially on a double hollow. In which case - and I know it sounds crazy - would you be better off NOT taping on the lower grits when you are applying some pressure, and taping on the higher grits so that the lack of flex in the blade has been taken into account?

Watching Alexs great honing video is what first sent me down this train of thought - he was applying some downward pressure at first, then as the edge came up he was relaxing. If the blade is flexing, even slightly, the angle of the bevel would be changing surely?

I dunno - like I say I am new to all of this, and have little experience to draw on.

I started out in the no-tape crowd, but now I pretty much tape every razor I hone. I use a single layer of electrical tape and find that it doesn't leave much residue on my Norton.

In theory, it makes sense that removing the tape late in the honing process (higher grits) would make for a double bevel, and that the very edge wouldn't get honed. I worried about this at first.

What I've found, though, is that the angle change is so slight that a few strokes on the Norton removes any double bevel that might exist.

I'll put tape on for work I'll be doing on 1K, 4K and 8K hones. I finish the edge on the 8K with the tape still on, then take it off to go to my pasted paddle strops. I hone razors for other guys, and most of them need to spend some time on the 1K. I prefer to let them wear out their razor's spine, not me.

For touchups, I don't bother taping the spine.

One thing I've noticed is that the taped blades handle differently than untaped ones--there's more friction. In some ways that's easier, and it's a little harder in others. I have to recalibrate my touch a little if I'm honing an untaped blade.

(Basically, honing for me has been a process of learning to listen to what Randy says. He'd answer a question for me, and I'd be like, "That doesn't sound right, I'll try it this way." My way would work OK, but eventually I'd figure out that Randy's way worked better. I guess it goes to show that your experiences early on aren't definitive. It seems like the more razors I hone, the more I realize that the accepted wisdom is correct.)

Josh

I fall more in with Lynns line of thinking on the tape issue. I will not use tape very often, but I do at times do. I have a set of rules that I follow, based loosely on the amount of steel I plan on taking off. I will often tape on 1k hones or if I plan to do a lot of work on the 4K. If I am removing an "unnatural" nick in the blade I will tape the edge. I have decided in my own mind that this "extra" honing is not part of the edge's natural life cycle and is a correction.

You could make an equal argument that I should be honing without tape in that case to ensure the spine gets worn down appropriately.

If I'm just honing to improve the edge than I do not tape as I want the spine to wear evenly with the edge reduction.

I will always make an effort to remove the tape before finishing to ensure I reset the bevel correctly when done.

Is all of this needed? Got me. I too find Randy's advice the way to go, and with a few years of experience am now able to really coorelate what Lynn says too. It all starts to make more sense after a while.

I put a little more concern into the life of the spine/edge connection because I do not rotate razors the way many people do. I use one razor daily, everyday. I've used the same razor everyday for about 4 years now, with the occasional variation. But even with wicked spine reduction the edge still shaves great and the spine is still waaaaaaay wider than then edge!

taping the spine definitely changes the blade geometry of the manufacturer so dont tape the spine even if it needs to take of, dents!
The only reason to tape a spine is an estetical or psychological but then you make your personal cutting angle
(excuse me for my poor English)