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Thread: Grit progression - What to look for

  1. #11
    Senior Member blabbermouth
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    You want to find out where you Chinese stone fits in your progression.

    Hone a razor with the Chinese stone and get an even stria pattern on the bevel, you do not have to worry about the bevel coming together, you just want to see the stria pattern.

    Mark the halfway point with a sharpie on both sides of the bevel. Now, holding the razor on your 16K stone with the center mark on the edge of the stone, do 10 laps.

    Look at the bevels with magnification and compare the Chinese stria to the 16k. The Chinese should be coarser than the 16K. Now do 10 laps on the 8K, holding the center mark on the edge of the 8K, removing the 16K stria. Compare the stria, If the 8K is coarser than the Chinese you know it is somewhere between 8 and 16K.

    As said you really do not need it in this synthetic progression. You can easily go from 8 to 16K and the synthetic progression will leave a more uniform stria pattern. A natural stone can have random large grit, leaving deep stria on the bevel.

    Chinese stones respond well to burnishing with hard flat carbon steel, as is done with hard Arks and are then capable of producing a finer edge than the grit.

    Now at least you will know where you stone fits in your progressing instead of guessing.

  2. #12
    Senior Member rlmnshvstr8's Avatar
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    Thanks Euclid,

    I love that "1/2 hone" idea. That, along with your suggestion, will help me be able to visually see what each of my hones' stria will look like so that I may get to know my hones better.

    Thanks
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    Senior Member rlmnshvstr8's Avatar
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    I finally gotten the ability to test and see where my c12k lands in my progression and learns a few things on the way.

    I decided to do the "1/2 hone" with each of my stones just to see what each stones stria looked like. When I did this, when I moved to the next stone I would start off its 90° strokes, just to see how long it took each stone to remove the previous stria. When I would remove the previous stria on only half the blade then I would do that many stokes on the whole blade to get the half that wasn't done. But this was a nice learning experience

    First I learned that my Norton 4k cuts much faster than I thought.

    Plus this method allowed me to feel by TPT one half of the blade that only had the previous hone wear and one halv with the new hone wear. So I actually had something to compare to.

    Next my c12k was definitely in between my 8k and 16k. But it took much less strokes to remove the stria than I thought. I was thinking 75 laps but it looked like it only took 40. And the stone produced more of a burnished edge rather than the normal uniform stria that I was seeing in the other hones.

    Finally my 16k only took 7 laps to remove the previous stria.

    So all in all I definitely got to see that I was overdoing each hone. And I suspect that I still am because when I was finished while I was on my 16 I was noticing some micro-chipping. But after I was done. This blade though it had some chipping produced one of the smoothest shaves I have done yet. All just by keeping a close eye on the edge.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member blabbermouth
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    Doing these kind of test will tell you a lot about what is happening at the edge. Few folks take the time to do this and really learn what their stones are capable of. These high grit synthetic stones are much aggressive and capable of much more than we give them credit for. The more you learn how best to use your stones, the better honer you will become and the stronger your edges will become.

    One of the problems of counting laps is, you want it to come together faster, so you inadvertently add more pressure.
    So, was the chipping due to pressure? Let’s find out.

    Lightly joint the edge, on the corner of the 16K to straighten the edge, 2-3 strokes with very light pressure. Then bring the edge back with light pressure X laps. Once the edge comes together, strop it and see if it holds.

    Depending on the amount of pressure that caused the edge to chip, you may have to joint it 2-3 times to get to good strong steel.

    It could also be your Chinese stone, that may have some random large grit. Burnishing the stone face might improve the performance.

  5. #15
    Senior Member rlmnshvstr8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclid440 View Post
    So, was the chipping due to pressure? Let’s find out.

    Lightly joint the edge, on the corner of the 16K to straighten the edge, 2-3 strokes with very light pressure. Then bring the edge back with light pressure X laps. Once the edge comes together, strop it and see if it holds.

    Depending on the amount of pressure that caused the edge to chip, you may have to joint it 2-3 times to get to good strong steel.

    It could also be your Chinese stone, that may have some random large grit. Burnishing the stone face might improve the performance.
    I'm not to familiar with the term "Joint the edge". Do you mean something like bread knifing or something else?
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    Senior Member blabbermouth
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    Yea, basically, but the object is to just straighten the edge by lightly stroking the corner of the stone as opposed to grinding sawing out a chip on a flat stone. No pressure bread knifing on the corner.

    The bevels are already flat and just a sliver from meeting, so just a few laps on the high grit stone should bring them together, if you do light honing laps the edge will be stronger with the weakened steel removed.

  7. #17
    Senior Member rlmnshvstr8's Avatar
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    Default Joint the Edge

    I found this. What do you think? anything you would add or take away? Yeah I know its talking about knife sharpening but it seems to have a lot of good info when it comes to straightening an edge and at around 29:00 it starts to talk about jointing an already sharp edge.





    Last edited by rlmnshvstr8; 12-02-2014 at 04:15 PM.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member blabbermouth
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    This is more of a bread-knifing technique where more steel need to be removed, though the principal is the same, to get an edge straight, square and smooth.

    We want to correct micro chipping, much smaller chips. If you traditionally bread-knife, you will have to go to a lower grit stone to re-set the bevel or do a lot of laps.

    With jointing you are very lightly dragging the edge on a single point, the corner of the stone to remove just the tips of the chips of a very, very thin edge and you can bring the bevels back to meeting with just a few laps on the high grit stone.

    Here is a good video of Alex Gilmore using a similar technique with the razor on the stone and lightly moving it back and forth 2-3 mm, then re setting the bevels with a high grit stone.


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