Thread: Coti method question

Originally Posted by nicknbleeding

Do you just use water or raise a little slurry?

i start with a heavy milky consistency to start , but im going from bevel set - finish of of a coti or coti's , when i would come off of a 8k norton i used to go with heavy slurry through progressions of light slurry , then lighter , then just water but i found that i was getting the same or near same results if i went from 8k- light slurry then water .. so with my stones i figure heavy slurry was prob between the 4-8 range so i was actually going backwards then forwards if you know what i mean ..

if i were you i would go light slurry and check your edge since you already know what your 8k edge is like then take it from there , i dont think your gonna get any right answer for how you go but i take into consideration the coti size ( more strokes on a shorter stone) and the fact that unlike man made stones no 2 coti's are gonna be the same .. to me its an adventure all in its own and no same method gives me the same results on any of my razors !! i think thats why i like them so much..lol

When I used a Coti a lot I would go up to 4k with synthetics then start with a medium slurry on the coti and worked towards clear and at the very end I would rinse the stone and the razor and do around 50 super light laps. I got great edges that way on my stone

I jump the coti after an 8K,,, nothing between an 8k & the coti. I only slurry the coti, if I'm dealing with a old Sheffield wedge,,, then work my way down to a water finish,,, each razor can show different results with a coti & not all coti's perform the same as you know,,,,JMO

Originally Posted by Hirlau

I jump the coti after an 8K,,, nothing between an 8k & the coti. I only slurry the coti, if I'm dealing with a old Sheffield wedge,,, then work my way down to a water finish,,, each razor can show different results with a coti & not all coti's perform the same as you know,,,,JMO

I'm with John on this. If I'm going to use the coticule as a finisher I don't mess with slurry, and if I do, for whatever reason, it is a light slurry. The thing to do is take a razor to a finished level, 8k, 12k, whatever, and shave with it. See how it is. Then take it to a coticule with water only, shave with it and see what the difference is.

Take notes on what you honed it with, how it shaved after each session. Try it with water only, light slurry and then dilute to water only. Keep track of and note the amount of strokes. I've done this a few times in the past, and wish I had been consistent in doing it with all of my razors.

I use only my coti. Was having problems with keeness at the end. Per the Cotucile library the rhomboid shaped garnets have a polishing and rounding effect when starting from slurry and working to water. Pre going to just water, add one layer of tape, This makes a micro bevel and with the garnets not free floating it allows for a keener final edge.
Lastly while I didnt believe it , It was stated to preform your stropping routine after honing and THEN check for HHT and what not.
When I followed it to the letter I got the legendary edges I only have read about.
Here it is verbatim
http://www.coticule.be/CSA.html

You don't need to go that high in progression bevore you get on the coti. The main thing about a coti is that it provides a very widde range of honing capabilities.
I always step to the coti after bevel setting on a 1K synthetic and use the 1 K only to have a defined starting point. Starting with a thick slurry on the coti and some pressure, than diluting more and more and reducing honing pressure until finally only using water, just like the dilicut method developped by Bart Torfs. You can also set the bevel on the coti, but that takes a bit more time and the point is, you always need to know exactly where you are in the progression to handle the dilution steps correctly.
But there is in my opinion really no reason to add a 4K or 8K step in between. You can easily remove the scratches that the 1K leaves with a thick coti slurry.
Under "normal" conditions with a good and fast coti an experienced honer should only need about 15-20 minutes to get a razor shave ready from a 1K with the coti.

Originally Posted by hatzicho

You don't need to go that high in progression bevore you get on the coti. The main thing about a coti is that it provides a very widde range of honing capabilities.
I always step to the coti after bevel setting on a 1K synthetic and use the 1 K only to have a defined starting point. Starting with a thick slurry on the coti and some pressure, than diluting more and more and reducing honing pressure until finally only using water, just like the dilicut method developped by Bart Torfs. You can also set the bevel on the coti, but that takes a bit more time and the point is, you always need to know exactly where you are in the progression to handle the dilution steps correctly.
But there is in my opinion really no reason to add a 4K or 8K step in between. You can easily remove the scratches that the 1K leaves with a thick coti slurry.
Under "normal" conditions with a good and fast coti an experienced honer should only need about 15-20 minutes to get a razor shave ready from a 1K with the coti.

+1 to this post Key terms "normal, and experienced."
When I was real green or new it took much longer. And using just a coti after a bevel setter I never saw scratches because they are not there, the polishing of the garnets remove materiel and polish simultaneously, Think of using 3D Stop signs for a grit material.
When you start with a thick milky slurry you are at apprx. 4K. So you bevel set at 1K then jump to 4K milky dilution with 'EXPERIENCE" takes you to 8-10K ,When I louped all the time I never had a scratch pattern, thought I failed, not so, had 20 razors that where all done without the final step of tape and water. Good acceptable shaves but nothing to brag or speak about. After Geezer pointed out that link and I read it 3 times and followed it to the letter, Presto I found the step I was missing. coti by themselves tend to polish over the blade tip rounding effect. layer of tape solves this geometric shaping. Then if you watch Glens honing vids, he states you dont need to adhere strict to unicot or dulicot. I did this found that circles and Glens style work, you still have to address the rounded coti edge final stage to coax out the legend. JMHO.
But I struggled mightily and refused to give up on my coti. Just had to figure out how to unlock it. This thread does not address pressure with slurry through dilution but you got this.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Take notes on what you honed it with, how it shaved after each session. Try it with water only, light slurry and then dilute to water only. Keep track of and note the amount of strokes. I've done this a few times in the past, and wish I had been consistent in doing it with all of my razors.

this is a good point also ... once i figured out how to get my razor(s) where i wanted them to be on the synthetics i went back to the other 30 or so that needed touch ups or a little more and started from bevel set to finish and kept a book with every razor and comments below it as to what stones , layers of tape , type of strokes , number of strokes , and how many on each stone ... i didnt do it as much with the coti but am starting to do it again ..

What I have found to work .. I usually set my bevel on my chosera 1k then I follow the unicot system.. I was getting those great cotis edges. Now I started playing with the dilucot method and not using tape.. And believe it or not the unicot is easier and I'm getting better edges that way.. I have even used my Coti to set bevels and do a one stone hone.. But the results IMO are better when I bevel set with a synthetic.. I'm gonna try the dilucot with a 1k chosera and see..

For the last year, I've used my coti for everything from bevel to finishing... using the unicot method on www.coticule.be. I've had amazing shaves using that method. As to some background, I've maintained my blades that were previously shave ready when I bought them, as well as bringing antique store finds into use once again... and some of these had edges in really rough shape.

A coti seems to be able to do it all, however, the drawback is that with those antique store finds, it took a LONG time to get that initial bevel. Within the last two weeks, I broke down and bought a Norton 220/1000 to speed up the process for the worn razors I may come across.

I'm sure the type of coti also makes a difference as some are faster than others. I really don't know what type mine is, but by reading descriptions and seeing pics, I believe it to be a La Grise.