Thread: Honing help on a couple razors please

Can you give us a picture of this razor? It's really hard to give advice on geometry issues when we don't have a clear idea of what the issues are. Sometimes they are hard enough to figure out with the razor in hand.

Here are a couple pics of each. You can see the Geneva actually has the slightest of smile.

Here is a pic showing the warp

You can see a hint of shadow under the middle.


PS: when I mentioned more pressure I was referring only to the strop. In reference to the comment that strops usually conform the blade. Are there varying opinions on this? I have to admit I have had best results with as little pressure as I can discern.

Here is the other razor which doesn't seem to sharpen properly. I can put an edge on two other razors so I'm thinking it is the degree of curve to the edge which is beyond my skill.

The Geneva looks like a tough one. You can probably get 2/3 of it by honing with the last third (heel) off the hone. But the problem is going to be getting the heel done without RE-honing the toe. This one requires someone more experienced than I.

The Geneva has a bit of a smile but should hone just fine.

The Geneva just needs a bevel set on your 4k, using an X stroke. As said tape it and ink the bevel to make sure you are hitting the whole bevel and shifting the pressure from heel to toe.

The German razor is in need of repair, it is a lot more than a simple touch up or a plain honing. It needs reshaping to remove the heel hook, left unattended that hook will cut you. This may be something you want to send out as it will require some tools you may not have and some experience to do correctly.

I would reshape the heel similar to the Geneva and make the heel portion smile the same degree of arc as the toe, so it looks symmetrical.

Make a cardboard tracing of the toe and trace it onto the heel with a sharpie, then with a diamond file grind it to the ink and correct the heel hook at the same time.
You will be removing a fair amount of material and will need a Diamond file or plate in the 300-600 grit range and a 1k to re shape and set the new bevel. It will also have quite a smile that also will take some experience to hone.

As far as the pressure statement, I was referring to your stropping, do not add pressure when stropping. You should use lite pressure when stropping, if you use pressure, you will roll or break the edge.

On the smiling razor you will need to strop with a bit of an X stroke to strop the whole edge.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

The Geneva has a bit of a smile but should hone just fine.

The Geneva just needs a bevel set on your 4k, using an X stroke. As said tape it and ink the bevel to make sure you are hitting the whole bevel and shifting the pressure from heel to toe.

The German razor is in need of repair, it is a lot more than a simple touch up or a plain honing. It needs reshaping to remove the heel hook, left unattended that hook will cut you. This may be something you want to send out as it will require some tools you may not have and some experience to do correctly.

I would reshape the heel similar to the Geneva and make the heel portion smile the same degree of arc as the toe, so it looks symmetrical.

Make a cardboard tracing of the toe and trace it onto the heel with a sharpie, then with a diamond file grind it to the ink and correct the heel hook at the same time.
You will be removing a fair amount of material and will need a Diamond file or plate in the 300-600 grit range and a 1k to re shape and set the new bevel. It will also have quite a smile that also will take some experience to hone.

As far as the pressure statement, I was referring to your stropping, do not add pressure when stropping. You should use lite pressure when stropping, if you use pressure, you will roll or break the edge.

On the smiling razor you will need to strop with a bit of an X stroke to strop the whole edge.

Thanks for the advice Euclid. I'm a bit confused as I assure you the entire bevel is not hitting the stone on the Geneva. The middle is clearly not touching when the heel and toe are on the stone. Do I just need to keep honing until it is all flat to the stone? Sacrificing material from the ends to get the middle down?

If you use a straight stroke then the heel and toe will only touch the stone, but if you use a proper X stroke, it will shift the pressure across the whole edge from the heel to the toe, like honing a curved knife.

It is a very subtle pressure shifts not a big swooping stroke from corner to corner.

Start with the toe on the upper right corner, begin a slight downward angle so the heel stays on the stone until the half way point, finish the stroke with the toe in the middle of the stone at the end, not off the lower left corner.

This will give you a slight pressure shift where a small amount of the bevel is on the stone at a time, but honing the bevel from heel to toe.
Do not use more pressure.

Those two types of strokes (X-stroke with heel forward, and rolling X-stroke) will be most effective in honing your Geneva.
Notice how the razor leaves the hone almost all the way out to the toe.
Those are not easy strokes to do and will need some practice to get them right, but do not get discouraged.

Originally Posted by OCDshaver

Do you think an x stroke will help here? If the heel and toe are touching but the center is not, I'm wondering if the rolling of pressure is going to correct that. I imagine that the rolling pressure will be very hard when the end points are making contact. This sounds like a candidate for a very narrow hone. Thoughts?

Yes, I do think it will help. Narrow hones were all the rage several years ago for dealing with problematic razors. They fell away quickly when some of us figured out that the stroke done on a narrow hone was the same that could be done on a wide hone. This is why my earlier post in this thread suggested drawing or imagining a parallel line about an inch from the edge of the hone. If the honer focuses only on that area, and makes sure that contact is made in that area by watching the water wave front travel along the length of the blade from heel to toe in that area of the hone, then a successful rolling of pressure will be accomplished.

As Euclid pointed out, the x stroke does not HAVE to be a full corner to corner trip for the toe of the blade. The x stroke is more about SUBTLE pressure transfer from the heel to the toe during the stroke, and the entire blade can stay on the hone and still accomplish this. I have just found it easier to teach this by creating the "virtual narrow hone" with the parallel line. An imaginary narrow hone accomplishes almost everything a real one can.

Originally Posted by mainaman

Those two types of strokes (X-stroke with heel forward, and rolling X-stroke) will be most effective in honing your Geneva.
Notice how the razor leaves the hone almost all the way out to the toe.
Those are not easy strokes to do and will need some practice to get them right, but do not get discouraged.

Thank you Stefan.