Thread: Honing help on a couple razors please

I've recently gotten into the whole honing thing. I struggled at first but once I lapped the stones smoother and learned how lightly to touch them I started getting some proper results. I even managed to put a pretty nice edge on a fully blunt W&B wedge. However, I am having a couple issues:

- First is a Geneva hollow. It seems the edge has an arch to it. Laying on a flat surface, one side the belly doesn't touch the hone, only the heel and toe. Is there any way to fix this? Should I just X the edge across the stone so that the heel runs off the edge and the middle touches? I have the same issues on the strop.

- Secondly I have a German 5/8" wedge which doesn't want to take an edge. I had it repaired by Glen and it shaved nicely for 2 years with regular strop work but it was in need of a touch up. Stupidly, I thought it would be a good idea to start on the 4k and work up, which I should have just touched it up. Either way, it doesn't seem to want to take an edge and I can't figure out why. The edge does have a smile to the end of it as a result of removing a chip, so that could be confusing my inexperienced skills. Any advice?

FYI, I'm using a Norton 4k/8k and a Shapton 16k.

For the Geneva, yes, you will need to do an X-stroke. The easiest way to do this will be to imagine, or actually draw with pencil, a parallel line about an inch from the side of the hone nearest your honing hand. As you hone, maintain contact between the razor's edge and that narrow strip of the hone. Watch the movement of water in that strip to confirm that you are maintaining contact.

For the wedge, did you use tape? If so, how many layers?

Thanks for the tip. I'll give that a shot. Same on the strop? Just run off the edge to hit the middle?

Yes, I used one layer. It doesn't look like I've made the bevel any wider than it was before. Also, it seems sharper coming off the 4k than the 8k, but even at that its not as sharp as either of the other blades at that stage.
Thanks!

Something to add to ensure you are contacting the entire bevel, take a sharpie to the bevel, make a couple x strokes and see where the sharpie remains. This is obviously where you aren't making contact on the stones.

The strop should have enough flex to accommodate the warped blade. At least I've never noticed one that was not getting stropped properly. On the other hand, I may not have noticed the lack of contact. Go ahead and do an x-stroke when you strop. I always do that.

You might want to try two layers of tape. First though, I would suggest you use the marker test to see if the single layer of tape is allowing the stone to make contact with the very edge of the bevel (aka, the edge).

Edit: Randy showed up at my door just before I finished typing this so that is why my post is redundant to shooter's above.

Originally Posted by no7fish

Thanks for the tip. I'll give that a shot. Same on the strop? Just run off the edge to hit the middle?

Thanks!

Does this razor have a frown?

No frown that I can discern. I have had my best results stropping as lightly as I can manage but I'll try a touch more pressure to see if I can get full contact.

On the wedge, the sharpie trick will most likely illustrate my shortcomings!
Thanks guys.

Originally Posted by bluesman7

Does this razor have a frown?

Thanks. I mistakenly immediately pictured a warped blade but a frown should always be the first consideration.

Hold the blade perpendicular, and lightly, to a known flat hone in front of a light. Any light coming through the gap between the blade and the hone will reveal the profile of the edge.

The X stroke is not a corner to corner stroke as most think, it is really just a pressure shift, so the contact point remains in the middle of the stone as it transfers across the edge from heel to toe.

The stroke is much more shallow, so the heel does not come off the stone until about the half way point and the toe end up in the middle of the stone not coming off the opposite, lower corner with a very slight rocking motion.

Do not use more pressure that, is never the answer.

Originally Posted by Utopian

For the Geneva, yes, you will need to do an X-stroke. The easiest way to do this will be to imagine, or actually draw with pencil, a parallel line about an inch from the side of the hone nearest your honing hand. As you hone, maintain contact between the razor's edge and that narrow strip of the hone. Watch the movement of water in that strip to confirm that you are maintaining contact.

For the wedge, did you use tape? If so, how many layers?

Do you think an x stroke will help here? If the heel and toe are touching but the center is not, I'm wondering if the rolling of pressure is going to correct that. I imagine that the rolling pressure will be very hard when the end points are making contact. This sounds like a candidate for a very narrow hone. Thoughts?